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Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
#26

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 01:48 AM)Mark Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 01:17 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 01:01 AM)Mark Wrote: Whoa ... therefore  GOD!

I don't follow.

You must be in rebellion.  Have any darklords approached you?
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#27

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 08:59 PM)Vera Wrote: There is a huge difference between life and intelligent life*. Simple life? Most probably. Anything more complex than this? So many things have to be just right (or wrong, to push evolution forward in an attempt to adapt and survive) for long enough periods of time... I think both possibilities are equally likely...

* Yeah, yeah, I know...

Plus didn't a bunch of mass extinctions happen on our planet before humans arrived? Not saying it's a requirement, but there was a lot of chaotic shit involved.
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#28

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 09:51 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Or maybe it has done better and they are too smart to bother with us?

I'm perfectly fine with the idea that there are dumb aliens out there too. Perhaps as dumb as us.
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#29

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 02:36 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: Plus didn't a bunch of mass extinctions happen on our planet before humans arrived? Not saying it's a requirement, but there was a lot of chaotic shit involved.

Yes, five mass extinctions (of over 50% of all species, if I remember correctly).  We are presently headed toward the sixth.

(07-11-2019, 02:40 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: I'm perfectly fine with the idea that there are dumb aliens out there too. Perhaps as dumb as us.

Perhaps evolution could never make us any smarter than we are, since we were created to be opportunistic.
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#30

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 01:29 AM)tomilay Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 07:54 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: 4003 exoplanets

If we stick to definition of life as being earthlike DNA, then we are alone. 
Why?
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#31

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 01:48 AM)Mark Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 01:17 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 01:01 AM)Mark Wrote: Whoa ... therefore  GOD!

I don't follow.

You must being rebellion.  Have any darklords approached you?

Not up on that meme, sorry.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#32

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 10:06 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 01:29 AM)tomilay Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 07:54 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: 4003 exoplanets

If we stick to definition of life as being earthlike DNA, then we are alone. 
Why?

Just a hunch. I think the odds of replicating the events and processes that happened on earth under similar conditions to lead to DNA are extremely low.
If it doesn't work, it doesn't matter how fast it doesn't work. ~ ???
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#33

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 11:09 AM)tomilay Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 10:06 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 01:29 AM)tomilay Wrote: If we stick to definition of life as being earthlike DNA, then we are alone. 
Why?

Just a hunch.  I think the odds of replicating the events and processes that happened on earth under similar conditions to lead to DNA are extremely low.

Why do you think that? I'm not trolling, I want to know why DNA isn't the "natural" means of coding information. Shy
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#34

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
Isn't it pretty much a mathematical certainty we're not alone in the universe? I remember watching a programme on TV about it and that's what the scientists on it said. Mind you I have heard that there is actually a scientific contingent that disagree with it but I'm going with the mathematical certainty crowd.
Justaminute    Salisbury steak...... A hamburger by any other name. 
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#35

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 01:11 PM)adey67 Wrote: Isn't it pretty much a mathematical certainty we're not alone in the universe? I remember watching a programme on TV about it and that's what the scientists on it said. Mind you I have heard that there is actually a scientific contingent that disagree with it but I'm going with the mathematical certainty crowd.

As no side has concrete information we have a truck load of speculations and you can fish among those something you like. I lean toward "intelligent life is inevitable but unlikely to contact us."
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#36

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
I think about whales, and birds that make tools, and the short-lived octopus. Man's narrow definition is lacking, IMO.
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#37

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
I prefer not to engage in baseless speculation and pointless fantasy about life elsewhere except when I'm masturbating.

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#38

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 12:13 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 11:09 AM)tomilay Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 10:06 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Why?

Just a hunch.  I think the odds of replicating the events and processes that happened on earth under similar conditions to lead to DNA are extremely low.

Why do you think that? I'm not trolling, I want to know why DNA isn't the "natural" means of coding information.  Shy

Because there might be alternatives.

Quote:In a research breakthrough funded by NASA, scientists have synthesized a molecular system that, like DNA, can store and transmit information. This unprecedented feat suggests there could be an alternative to DNA-based life, as we know it on Earth – a genetic system for life that may be possible on other worlds.

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/859/na...lien-life/
If it doesn't work, it doesn't matter how fast it doesn't work. ~ ???
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#39

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 11:41 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Yeah, it's only about us in our own heads.


The desire to feel important lies deep in human psychology, I think. We've gone from gods worried about us to Copernicus demoting us, and then Einstein showing us that even our own frames of reference aren't special at all. Humans don't seem to like that. 

Humans don't like it and it's all about us... but those "us" are not "us" because we-we get it and we-they don't?

It is not only about us in our heads, both us (the ones who "get it" and the ones who think it's all about them)... yes, a lot of people want to feel special and have it all be about them... and a lot don't. It is not "all about us" and "humans" are capable of accepting their place in the universe.

My first post was only very loosely aimed at you, which I've explained. I do profusely apologise that I dared quote a line from your post and then go on to say things that are not directly connected to your post. I will go flagellate myself now.
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#40

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 02:06 PM)tomilay Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 12:13 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 11:09 AM)tomilay Wrote: Just a hunch.  I think the odds of replicating the events and processes that happened on earth under similar conditions to lead to DNA are extremely low.

Why do you think that? I'm not trolling, I want to know why DNA isn't the "natural" means of coding information.  Shy

Because there might be alternatives.

Quote:In a research breakthrough funded by NASA, scientists have synthesized a molecular system that, like DNA, can store and transmit information. This unprecedented feat suggests there could be an alternative to DNA-based life, as we know it on Earth – a genetic system for life that may be possible on other worlds.

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/859/na...lien-life/

I was looking for an answer to the bit in red.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#41

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 03:57 PM)Vera Wrote: My first post was only very loosely aimed at you, which I've explained. I do profusely apologise that I dared quote a line from your post and then go on to say things that are not directly connected to your post. I will go flagellate myself now.

Well, forgive me for thinking you were talking to me when in fact you only quoted me to open your post and then went on to try to make me look like an arrogant cunt who holds myself above humanity.

Rather than flagellation, the thing could be handled by a simple caveat ("in a broader sense", or "a lot of people", that sort of thing). 

Or you could do what I do and get my broader points out of the way first, and then address particular quotes. That really avoids the whole "he's reading something different than what I writing". As a plus, it doesn't rely upon my non-existent psychic abilities.
<Insert intelligent thought here>
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#42

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 04:06 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I was looking for an answer to the bit in red.

What are the odds of a chain of events leading to the rise of even one species? Humans wouldn't exist were in not for the K/T impact. Happenstances of geology, astronomy, and biology combine to make the circumstances permitting any species to arise extremely unlikely to recur on any exoplanet.
<Insert intelligent thought here>
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#43

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
Based on one sample we can't really even speculate either way.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#44

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 05:57 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Based on one sample we can't really even speculate either way.

Mathematics being what it is, it's clear that the probability of evolution following the same path even here on Earth is fairly rare. Convergent evolution is a fact here on Earth, but changing the planet on which the evolution is occurring is a great way to change massive numbers of variables in one blow.
<Insert intelligent thought here>
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#45

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
Quote: and we could very well be the most advanced life the universe has managed to "create".


Now THAT is one horrible thought!

[Image: 2782-e1508243200384.jpg]
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#46

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 06:14 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 05:57 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Based on one sample we can't really even speculate either way.

Mathematics being what it is, it's clear that the probability of evolution following the same path even here on Earth is fairly rare. Convergent evolution is a fact here on Earth, but changing the planet on which the evolution is occurring is a great way to change massive numbers of variables in one blow.
Sorry, but that's a SWAG and inconclusive.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#47

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 06:26 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 06:14 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 05:57 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Based on one sample we can't really even speculate either way.

Mathematics being what it is, it's clear that the probability of evolution following the same path even here on Earth is fairly rare. Convergent evolution is a fact here on Earth, but changing the planet on which the evolution is occurring is a great way to change massive numbers of variables in one blow.

Sorry, but that's a SWAG and inconclusive.


I'm not trying to convince you. Of course it's inconclusive; I'm talking about probabilities. 

However, the multiplicities of physiologies and approaches that have evolved just to the challenges on this planet alone lead me to think that the odds of intelligent alien life being similar to human beings is very, very small.
<Insert intelligent thought here>
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#48

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
They've found RNA precursors in space. Big hint.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#49

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 04:06 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 02:06 PM)tomilay Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 12:13 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Why do you think that? I'm not trolling, I want to know why DNA isn't the "natural" means of coding information.  Shy

Because there might be alternatives.

Quote:In a research breakthrough funded by NASA, scientists have synthesized a molecular system that, like DNA, can store and transmit information. This unprecedented feat suggests there could be an alternative to DNA-based life, as we know it on Earth – a genetic system for life that may be possible on other worlds.

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/859/na...lien-life/

I was looking for an answer to the bit in red.

I stand to be corrected by someone more versed in the subject, but evidence suggests abiogenesis happened once on earth. That suggests it has something to do with conditions on earth a couple billion years ago.  Conditions that have not occurred again.  

Now if you extrapolate that with a different planet, different part of the galaxy(or even different galaxy), the probability of that confluence of events and processes is even less.
If it doesn't work, it doesn't matter how fast it doesn't work. ~ ???
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#50

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 11:21 PM)Alan V Wrote: I'm not sure why we want to find intelligent life on another planet when right here on earth we deliberately avoid talking to our neighbors.   hobo

You don't know my neighbors.
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