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Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
#1

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
4003 exoplanets
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#2

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
The sheer size of the universe is astounding. To think that this planet is the only one with life is ludicrous.
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#3

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
That same scale ensures that we will probably never encounter that life. It makes for fanciful thoughts and stories, but wasting resources to hoon around the universe isn't going to pay for any race. We haven't even had a HAM radio moment Big Grin
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#4

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
But.... but....

[Image: image01-3.jpg]
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#5

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
There is a huge difference between life and intelligent life*. Simple life? Most probably. Anything more complex than this? So many things have to be just right (or wrong, to push evolution forward in an attempt to adapt and survive) for long enough periods of time... I think both possibilities are equally likely...

* Yeah, yeah, I know...
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#6

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
[Image: icon_quote.jpg]Skyking:
That same scale ensures that we will probably never encounter that life.

I see you've never met my uncle. [Image: Gagged.png]
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#7

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
I think that if we humans arose in 4.8 billion years, an 14 biillion-year-old Universe probably has other irons in the fire.
<Insert intelligent thought here>
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#8

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
Or maybe it has done better and they are too smart to bother with us?
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#9

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 09:51 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Or maybe it has done better and they are too smart to bother with us?
That's the resources thing. Any species sufficiently advanced to flit around the galaxy would probably have better things to do Big Grin
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#10

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
There's one thing that might let us met other intelligent species, immortality. For US and THEM.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#11

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 09:51 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Or maybe it has done better and they are too smart to bother with us?

Yeah, it's only about us in our own heads.
<Insert intelligent thought here>
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#12

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 10:48 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Yeah, it's only about us in our own heads.

Or maybe we *did* "get there" first. Some of us might be arrogant or whatever, but I find the opposite, oh, there must be other life and they are absolutely and surely better and more advanced than we are, a rather misanthropic and, frankly, ignorant way of thinking. Why should they be more advanced? 13 billion years may sound like a lot but it really isn't that much, in light of how long it took for planets to form and then become habitable, and we could very well be the most advanced life the universe has managed to "create".

We might enjoy moaning and bitching about how horrible we are and how we should all just die off, about shitgibbons and petty, insignificant things like this*, but in the very short time we've existed as a species we have achieved incredible things, we have gone, as Brain Cox put it, from apemen to spacemen, from making stone spearheads to having a permanent dwelling in space, we have landed probes on comets and planets, and moons, and frankly, I think this is amazing and worthy of admiration and quite an impressive achievement.

But hating on one's own species is cooler, I guess. Deadpan Coffee Drinker


*"Centuries hence, when current social and political problems may seem as remote as the problems of the Thirty Years' War are to us, our age may be remembered chiefly for one fact: It was the time when the inhabitants of the earth first made contact with the vast cosmos in which their small planet is embedded." Carl Sagan
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#13

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
Remember, we're a Johnny-come-lately star and intelligent life was just yesterday.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#14

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
I'm not sure why we want to find intelligent life on another planet when right here on earth we deliberately avoid talking to our neighbors.   hobo
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#15

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 11:02 PM)Vera Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 10:48 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Yeah, it's only about us in our own heads.

Or maybe we *did* "get there" first. Some of us might be arrogant or whatever, but I find the opposite, oh, there must be other life and they are absolutely and surely better and more advanced than we are, a rather misanthropic and, frankly, ignorant way of thinking. Why should they be more advanced? 13 billion years may sound like a lot but it really isn't that much, in light of how long it took for planets to form and then become habitable, and we could very well be the most advanced life the universe has managed to "create".

We might enjoy moaning and bitching about how horrible we are and how we should all just die off, about shitgibbons and petty, insignificant things like this*, but in the very short time we've existed as a species we have achieved incredible things, we have gone, as Brain Cox put it, from apemen to spacemen, from making stone spearheads to having a permanent dwelling in space, we have landed probes on comets and planets, and moons, and frankly, I think this is amazing and worthy of admiration and quite an impressive achievement.

But hating on one's own species is cooler, I guess. Deadpan Coffee Drinker


*"Centuries hence, when current social and political problems may seem as remote as the problems of the Thirty Years' War are to us, our age may be remembered chiefly for one fact: It was the time when the inhabitants of the earth first made contact with the vast cosmos in which their small planet is embedded." Carl Sagan

It's not about hating my species. It's about understanding us. Our history is a story of being removed from the center of the Universe, psychologically; even Sagan makes this point in The Dragons of Eden and Broca's Brain. The desire to feel important lies deep in human psychology, I think. We've gone from gods worried about us to Copernicus demoting us, and then Einstein showing us that even our own frames of reference aren't special at all. Humans don't seem to like that. Pointing that out does not equate to hating humans.

In a purely mathematical sense, the odds of us being the first intelligent life the Universe has spawned seems pretty remote, to me. Neither does pointing that out mean I hate people.

You're imputing to me a view I don't hold.
<Insert intelligent thought here>
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#16

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 11:41 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: You're imputing to me a view I don't hold.

The hating bit was general, not aimed at you specifically.

It still isn't necessarily and in all cases about being special. "Humans don't seem to like that." - That's rather arrogant - others want to feel special but I, you, Carl Sagan don't? What are we, not humans? Better than humans? If you, and me, and Sagan can grasp it, so can - and do - many others. A lot of us find immense comfort in the knowledge of our own insignificance.

"In a purely mathematical sense, the odds of us being the first intelligent life the Universe has spawned seems pretty remote, to me."

"Seems" and "me" (or you, or anyone) being the operative words here. The only honest answer is we do not know and we probably do not even have a way of knowing. Statistics doesn't quiet work with a set of one, sadly...

Show ContentSpoiler:

ETA: This is also an interesting read.
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#17

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 11:21 PM)Alan V Wrote: I'm not sure why we want to find intelligent life on another planet when right here on earth we deliberately avoid talking to our neighbors.   hobo

What about when one's neighbours are veritable shitheads? Consider
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#18

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 11:56 PM)Vera Wrote: That's rather arrogant - others want to feel special but I, you, Carl Sagan don't? What are we, not humans? Better than humans? 

Wait, where did I set myself apart from humans? I even use the words "us", "we've", and "our".

Just read what I wrote without trying to read between any lines. Stop trying to impute outlooks to me that I don't hold. Or if you'd rather argue points you've made up yourself, have at it, but there's no need to quote me at that point. Don't expect me to defend points I haven't made and do not share.
<Insert intelligent thought here>
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#19

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 08:59 PM)Vera Wrote: There is a huge difference between life and intelligent life*. Simple life? Most probably. Anything more complex than this? So many things have to be just right (or wrong, to push evolution forward in an attempt to adapt and survive) for long enough periods of time... I think both possibilities are equally likely...

What would you count as 'intelligent'?  God, I hope we're not the standard.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#20

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 09:51 PM)Minimalist Wrote: Or maybe it has done better and they are too smart to bother with us?


I assume we're under some sort of quarantine.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#21

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 10:11 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: There's one thing that might let us met other intelligent species, immortality. For US and THEM.



Whoa ... therefore  GOD!
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#22

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 11:56 PM)Vera Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 11:21 PM)Alan V Wrote: I'm not sure why we want to find intelligent life on another planet when right here on earth we deliberately avoid talking to our neighbors.   hobo

What about when one's neighbours are veritable shitheads?  Consider


Well then .. kill them.  Kill them all!!!
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#23

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 01:01 AM)Mark Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 10:11 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: There's one thing that might let us met other intelligent species, immortality. For US and THEM.



Whoa ... therefore  GOD!

I don't follow.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#24

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-10-2019, 07:54 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: 4003 exoplanets

If we stick to definition of life as being earthlike DNA, then we are alone.  If the definition becomes broader then we may not be alone, but we might have trouble recognizing other radically different life as life as they would us.

As far as advanced life that has developed electromagnetic communications, that has to be extremely rare.  Consider that the events that led to the Age of Enlightenment are themselves extremely unlikely and it only arose in Europe.  Take Europe(maybe even just England) out of the picture, and there is no telling how long it would take, if at all for, the same outcome to happen.
If it doesn't work, it doesn't matter how fast it doesn't work. ~ ???
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#25

Are we alone? Bets are we're not.
(07-11-2019, 01:17 AM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(07-11-2019, 01:01 AM)Mark Wrote:
(07-10-2019, 10:11 PM)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: There's one thing that might let us met other intelligent species, immortality. For US and THEM.



Whoa ... therefore  GOD!

I don't follow.

You must being rebellion.  Have any darklords approached you?
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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