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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum

Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
(05-24-2019, 06:31 PM)jerryg Wrote: Out of curiosity, where do people come down on the mother drinking/drugging during her pregnancy?  Is that still a my body my choice situation?


I dare speculate that a happy woman, looking forward to a child she longs for, is less likely to do things that harm the embryo than a woman who is forced to incubate, be that by law or culture or whatever.
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
(05-24-2019, 09:46 PM)Dom Wrote:
(05-24-2019, 06:31 PM)jerryg Wrote: Out of curiosity, where do people come down on the mother drinking/drugging during her pregnancy?  Is that still a my body my choice situation?

I dare speculate that a happy woman, looking forward to a child she longs for, is less likely to do things that harm the embryo than a woman who is forced to incubate, be that by law or culture or whatever.

That's not really the question I asked though.  I'm pro choice.  We agree abortion is our friend.  

I'm just curious about rationalizing the my body my choice and the lack of fetus rights with the woman being able to break the fetus' brain.  It's just a little awkward ethically speaking, I thought, combining the two ideas.  Not making an anti-abortion case, just curious how people deal with that idea.
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
(05-22-2019, 02:55 PM)SteveII Wrote:
(05-22-2019, 04:18 AM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: People keep going on about the rights of the mother and the rights of the fetus. While important, those arguments ignore the single most important thing about the abortion argument...

As a matter of fact, you do. Your "single most important thing" could apply to an infant, toddler, and even beyond. Should we contemplate the right to kill them?

This is probably one of the silliest comments I've seen on this thread. For someone to even say this
sort of thing—apparently in all seriousness—indicates a stunted mind and a total absence of any logic.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
(05-25-2019, 08:25 AM)SYZ Wrote:
(05-22-2019, 02:55 PM)SteveII Wrote:
(05-22-2019, 04:18 AM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: People keep going on about the rights of the mother and the rights of the fetus. While important, those arguments ignore the single most important thing about the abortion argument...

As a matter of fact, you do. Your "single most important thing" could apply to an infant, toddler, and even beyond. Should we contemplate the right to kill them?

This is probably one of the silliest comments I've seen on this thread.  For someone to even say this
sort of thing—apparently in all seriousness—indicates a stunted mind and a total absence of any logic.

It's too bad that Stevie won't be back to this thread to defend his views. But, I dropped a couple f-bombs on him and in his sad little mind that's less civil than misrepresenting others arguments to better suit his narrative. [Image: Eye_Roll.gif]

Not to worry, though. He's infected other threads with his arrogant condescension, poor logic, and bad use of outdated science.

I find it especially funny, and hypocritical, that he wants to stretch the definition of murder to cover zygotes in the womb but cry's like a butt-hurt school-girl stood up by her prom date when anyone wants to include same sex couples in the definition of marriage.
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
I think it was on Bill Maher's Real Time last week that he quoted someone as saying of abortion that it should be affordable, safe and rare.

Affordable, because no matter how one feels about it, it can't be more okay for the wealthy than for the poor.  Safe, because anyone who is pro-life shouldn't be eager for women to die needlessly.  Apparently, I think the conversation went, where the first two are true, abortion becomes more rare.  Too bad we can't be one of the smart countries.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
(05-25-2019, 04:34 AM)jerryg Wrote:
(05-24-2019, 09:46 PM)Dom Wrote:
(05-24-2019, 06:31 PM)jerryg Wrote: Out of curiosity, where do people come down on the mother drinking/drugging during her pregnancy?  Is that still a my body my choice situation?

I dare speculate that a happy woman, looking forward to a child she longs for, is less likely to do things that harm the embryo than a woman who is forced to incubate, be that by law or culture or whatever.

That's not really the question I asked though.  I'm pro choice.  We agree abortion is our friend.  

I'm just curious about rationalizing the my body my choice and the lack of fetus rights with the woman being able to break the fetus' brain.  It's just a little awkward ethically speaking, I thought, combining the two ideas.  Not making an anti-abortion case, just curious how people deal with that idea.


This answer is not directed at you in specific, Jerry, nor was the previous one. I am just quoting earlier posts so my comments don't look totally out of context. Sorry about that. These statements are not directed at anyone in specific.

Here goes: Why don't we just jail pregnant women until after they give birth. That way we know she won't abort or otherwise hurt an embryo. 
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
Don't give the republicunts any ideas, Dom.  They would so love to be more extreme than the Taliban at something.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
(05-16-2019, 05:07 PM)Catholic_Lady Wrote: This issue breaks my heart so much, and is a personal thing for me for multiple reasons that I may or may not get into on this thread. I've mostly avoided this topic for the past couple of years because it's become such a trigger for me, and even seeing thread titles referencing it here makes me flinch. (Yes, I am, as they say a "snow flake"... I know.)  

Weirdly enough, as hard as it is to see/hear stuff about abortion, it's also hard not to say anything when I do. Now that the abortion talk seems to be everywhere (given current events) I'm finally caving and wanted to say some things here. I don't expect to change anyone's mind on the topic (especially not overnight), but I do hope to maybe bring some understanding and offer some perspective, coming from the pro life side of things.

Unfortunately, I don't think our society is ready yet to completely outlaw all abortion from one day to the next. As much as I wish it were, it just isn't. It has to be a process. We need to put more emphasis on the consequences of sex, how it isn't something to be taken lightly, and how to avoid pregnancy. We need better care and support for women who find themselves in crisis pregnancies, so that they don't have to worry about a single thing more than that. We need more help for single mothers - health insurance for her and her kid, day care so she can work or go to school, food, shelter, etc. We need an understanding, as a society, the value of human life in all its stages. Not just know that, but understand it - just like we came to understand here in America that blacks are not less human than whites. That process all takes time, education, and proactive work. (And I hate saying that because I think of all the innocent lives that are being lost in the mean time... and yet, it's no skin off my back, because I was out of the womb 33 years ago, so my life is protected now. It makes me feel like I'm saying "it takes time" from a place of privilege because it's not MY right to life that's being taken away.) 

Am I anti feminist for being pro life? I don't understand this argument because half of all fetuses are girls. Do the feminists not think my little girl has a right to life? What about my half sister's life, when she was almost aborted? No feminists standing up for her rights? Now, it is true that women have a right to not be pregnant if they don't want to be. But it is also true that, as a human being, her fetus has the right to live. When there is a conflict of rights like this, you have to look at both rights to see which right takes precedence over the other. And the right to life trumps all other rights, because without it, no other rights would make sense. The right to life is the most basic and fundamental of all human rights. Emotions aside, at the end of the day, this is really what it comes down to for me.

I do not know how much do you go to church. My wife is catholic and she goes regularly on sunday morning, but she is in favour of abort law, divorce and euthanasia.
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
God wants people to control other people's bodies.
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
World population as of 7/1/20

7,794,798,739


There is no shortage.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
(05-16-2019, 05:26 PM)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(05-16-2019, 05:14 PM)Dānu Wrote: Where are you getting that a fetus has a right to live from?

From the same place that all humans have the right to life. 

Things like slavery, the holocaust, the wiping out of the Native Americans, etc, were all founded on the belief at the time that those people weren't really human or weren't *as* human... and therefore they didn't posses basic human rights. Some of the worst atrocities and crimes against humanity throughout history were done based on the notion that certain groups shouldn't be counted as human beings. I guess we must have a tendency to do that, because it is something that has happened since as far back as we know history. It's a road and a type of thinking that we need to strive to turn away from as we become more civilized and gain a better understanding of the dignity of human life.

A ball of cells is not a human.   No brain, no central nervous system, not a person.

You need to separate an image of a tiny child in utero and what there actually is in the first trimester.
Besides, a large proportion of pregnancies never come to term as they are aborted naturally. On average, about 40% of fertilized eggs do not develop into human beings;
Younger and older women have higher rates of miscarriage.
Philosophy is about asking questions.
Science is about answering questions.
Theology is about avoiding questions.
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
Catholic Lady hasn't been here since March. You're replying to a ghost.
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Finally opening up about abortion on this forum
And when she successfully gave birth to her daughter I was genuinely overjoyed for her, but, the irony of her making her choice but denying that right to choose to someone else never seems to have sunk in with her.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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