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"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
#1

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
When I was a teenager, I'd look at girls just as much as any heterosexual teenage boy. I thought it was kind of the default to marry and have kids. But nowadays, it seems like divorce is no longer a last resort. Sometimes, it seems like a given. Is a commitment "'til death do you part" silly to expect now? Have things changed? Is this a good thing? Why/why not?
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
Carl Sagan
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#2

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
From my pov it is making a promise that is hard to hold. Together till it stop being enjoyable for us both would be far more honest I think.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#3

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
Been married four times, divorced once.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#4

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
Paradise by the dashboard light?

It was always silly, and a bit dangerous.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#5

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
(04-12-2019, 05:58 AM)c172 Wrote: When I was a teenager, I'd look at girls just as much as any heterosexual teenage boy. I thought it was kind of the default to marry and have kids. But nowadays, it seems like divorce is no longer a last resort. Sometimes, it seems like a given. Is a commitment "'til death do you part" silly to expect now? Have things changed? Is this a good thing? Why/why not?

LOL... you're a bit behind the times mate.     Tongue

No modern marriage vows include the line "til death do us part".

This is more typical—no death mentioned:


"I give you all of my love from this day forward, and assure you that you will never walk alone.

You love is my anchor and your trust is my strength.

I wish for my heart to be your shelter and the comfort of my arms to be your home.

This ring has no beginning or end and neither does my love for you.

Today I give you all that I am and all that I shall become
."
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#6

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
When I consider that about 90% of the people I graduated from high school have gotten divorced at least once, I'd say yes. Whether or not those words are still used in marriage ceremonies now, I couldn't say. The idea of marriage and kids never appealed to me. I have remained a confirmed bachelor.
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#7

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
I come from a long line of life-long bachelors.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#8

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
(04-12-2019, 05:58 AM)c172 Wrote: When I was a teenager, I'd look at girls just as much as any heterosexual teenage boy. I thought it was kind of the default to marry and have kids. But nowadays, it seems like divorce is no longer a last resort. Sometimes, it seems like a given. Is a commitment "'til death do you part" silly to expect now? Have things changed? Is this a good thing? Why/why not?

LOL... you're a bit behind the times mate.     Tongue

No modern marriage vows include the line "til death do us part".

This is more typical—no death mentioned:


"I give you all of my love from this day forward, and assure you that you will never walk alone.

You love is my anchor and your trust is my strength.

I wish for my heart to be your shelter and the comfort of my arms to be your home.

This ring has no beginning or end and neither does my love for you.

Today I give you all that I am and all that I shall become
."
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#9

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
Like the utilitarian assumption that people are rational agents, fully capable of shepherding their own self-interests, it is an ideal and a fiction which it serves society and the individuals best by preserving.
[Image: signature%20The-Ascension-of-Iweko.jpg]
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#10

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
Being twice widowed, I did use those words and live by them, as did my husbands. Looking back, we all profited. The point is that you promise to have the other person's back, no matter what.

Life is a lot easier when two people support each other, in every meaning of the word, as needed. The promise doesn't include children, it doesn't dictate a life style in any way.

People all too often confuse sexual infatuation or a desire to procreate with a basis for a permanent relationship. It is not. You need a rational basis for such decisions, a lot of mutual trust, and the willingness to support your partner even in things they aspire when you don't approve. It's about helping each other grow in whatever direction that takes them.


I have always had a two year live-in trial before committing, and that was after a lengthy dating phase. Most people didn't make it to the 3 year mark. (Some didn't even make it past the Saint Bernard I had at the time  Tongue ). 

If they could walk through the door, I'd marry them again. As is, burying two men is enough for me, so "no thanks" in the future.
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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#11

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
(04-12-2019, 11:29 AM)SYZ Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 05:58 AM)c172 Wrote: When I was a teenager, I'd look at girls just as much as any heterosexual teenage boy. I thought it was kind of the default to marry and have kids. But nowadays, it seems like divorce is no longer a last resort. Sometimes, it seems like a given. Is a commitment "'til death do you part" silly to expect now? Have things changed? Is this a good thing? Why/why not?

LOL... you're a bit behind the times mate.     Tongue

No modern marriage vows include the line "til death do us part".

This is more typical—no death mentioned:


"I give you all of my love from this day forward, and assure you that you will never walk alone.

You love is my anchor and your trust is my strength.

I wish for my heart to be your shelter and the comfort of my arms to be your home.

This ring has no beginning or end and neither does my love for you.

Today I give you all that I am and all that I shall become
."

I have heard till death do you part at many weddings, especially weddings officiated by priests or ministers.  

Wasn’t a feature on my wedding day, though.   

We didn’t write our own vows, but did talk to our justice of the peace to make sure there’d be no mention of obedience or deities.
god, ugh
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#12

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
(04-12-2019, 07:02 AM)Szuchow Wrote: From my pov it is making a promise that is hard to hold. Together till it stop being enjoyable for us both would be far more honest I think.

I agree. Once the relationship becomes more of a burden, a duty, and begins to lose that joy and passion, they should be honest with themselves and each other about it and perhaps consider parting ways. 

Never been married myself. It seems like a trap to me.
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#13

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
I was happy with 75% of my wives.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#14

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
I used to work with a guy who would proudly proclaim "my wife and I have had 17 wonderful years together...... and 17 out of 35 isn't bad."


I'll be married 49 years in the Fall.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#15

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
(04-12-2019, 07:02 AM)Szuchow Wrote: From my pov it is making a promise that is hard to hold. Together till it stop being enjoyable for us both would be far more honest I think.

Life often stops being enjoyable whether you have a partner or not. The idea is that your partner helps you through the non-enjoyable parts and you do the same for them. A lot of the crap life throws at you is a lot easier to deflect when there are two of you.

Of course, if you expect to be "in love" every day of your life, that's not going to happen.
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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#16

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
"'Til death do us part"? To quote Hemingway, "Isn't it pretty to think so?"

I love the idea of it, but by the end of a six-year common-law marriage which gave me my son, ""Til death do us part" might have implied taking my own life, lol. If you choose wisely, I imagine it's glorious. If you don't, that's a long goddamned sentence.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#17

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
(04-12-2019, 09:57 PM)Dom Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 07:02 AM)Szuchow Wrote: From my pov it is making a promise that is hard to hold. Together till it stop being enjoyable for us both would be far more honest I think.

Life often stops being enjoyable whether you have a partner or not. The idea is that your partner helps you through the non-enjoyable parts and you do the same for them. A lot of the crap life throws at you is a lot easier to deflect when there are two of you.

Of course, if you expect to be "in love" every day of your life, that's not going to happen.

From my pov it's just highly unrealistic vow and so I see no reason to bind myself with such.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#18

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
(04-16-2019, 01:29 PM)Szuchow Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 09:57 PM)Dom Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 07:02 AM)Szuchow Wrote: From my pov it is making a promise that is hard to hold. Together till it stop being enjoyable for us both would be far more honest I think.

Life often stops being enjoyable whether you have a partner or not. The idea is that your partner helps you through the non-enjoyable parts and you do the same for them. A lot of the crap life throws at you is a lot easier to deflect when there are two of you.

Of course, if you expect to be "in love" every day of your life, that's not going to happen.

From my pov it's just highly unrealistic vow and so I see no reason to bind myself with such.

And so you shouldn't. What works for one person doesn't have to work for another.
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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#19

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
In fairness, for most of human history death used to come a lot sooner.

[Image: bullshit-caveman-meme.jpg]
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#20

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
(04-16-2019, 03:27 PM)Minimalist Wrote: In fairness, for most of human history death used to come a lot sooner.

[Image: bullshit-caveman-meme.jpg]

I think they used do die a lot from simple infections. Little wounds we slap a bandaid on today. Science to the rescue, hygiene and science.
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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#21

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
(04-16-2019, 03:36 PM)Dom Wrote:
(04-16-2019, 03:27 PM)Minimalist Wrote: In fairness, for most of human history death used to come a lot sooner.

[Image: bullshit-caveman-meme.jpg]

I think they used do die a lot from simple infections. Little wounds we slap a bandaid on today. Science to the rescue, hygiene and science.

I'm alive at 68 because of a collection of medicines that didn't exist when I was born.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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#22

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
Ha!   Tongue
Soap lengthens human lifespan, while lifelong commitment destroys will to live.  

We're just too fucking ironic for our own good. Shy
________________________________________________
A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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#23

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
(04-12-2019, 09:53 PM)Minimalist Wrote: I used to work with a guy who would proudly proclaim "my wife and I have had 17 wonderful years together...... and 17 out of 35 isn't bad."


I'll be married 49 years in the Fall.

Your friend was batting 486.  How are you and the missus doing?  All I know is the wonderfulness is a little more challenging to come by as one or both start to wither.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#24

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
(04-12-2019, 05:58 AM)c172 Wrote: When I was a teenager, I'd look at girls just as much as any heterosexual teenage boy. I thought it was kind of the default to marry and have kids. But nowadays, it seems like divorce is no longer a last resort. Sometimes, it seems like a given. Is a commitment "'til death do you part" silly to expect now? Have things changed? Is this a good thing? Why/why not?

I think "until death do us part" is something that both spouses should still strive for, and dont find that silly at all. There is so much on the line when you marry someone, including shared children. Divorce should be a last resort, in my opinion. With the exception of infidelity and abuse, many issues can be worked out if *both* parties are willing to give it their all. Of course, it doesnt work if only one of them is willing.
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#25

"Until death do you part". Obsolete?
(04-16-2019, 08:28 PM)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(04-12-2019, 05:58 AM)c172 Wrote: When I was a teenager, I'd look at girls just as much as any heterosexual teenage boy. I thought it was kind of the default to marry and have kids. But nowadays, it seems like divorce is no longer a last resort. Sometimes, it seems like a given. Is a commitment "'til death do you part" silly to expect now? Have things changed? Is this a good thing? Why/why not?

I think "until death do us part" is something that both spouses should still strive for, and dont find that silly at all. There is so much on the line when you marry someone, including shared children. Divorce should be a last resort, in my opinion. With the exception of infidelity and abuse, many issues can be worked out if *both* parties are willing to give it their all. Of course, it doesnt work if only one of them is willing.


I've got to agree.  If you held out any caveats about "so long as the other person keeps trying" then gawd help you when that partner develops cognitive issues.  If you wouldn't want to be abandoned for some new deficit, you kind of have to commit to reciprocate.  It's pretty basic.
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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