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Me too
#51

Me too
I grew up in a one income family with rigidly defined gender roles.  That pretty much reflected Australian society until well into the 1960's

I first  became aware of  feminism at age 16. As in  "You mean that I have treat a girl  as a real person?"  Confused the fuck out of me--I had no problem with equal pay, equal  admission to the professions. After all, I came from an anti authority Irish Catholic Family. We were in complete agreement of equality for women at that level.

But, as for sexual  behaviour; I went to an all boys Catholic school. We were not allowed to date girls. That  secretly delighted most  of us; girls scared us  . So the only girls we knew were  family and the odd mate's sister. 

 I had my first  girlfriend at 17. I was a bit lost. So I defaulted to how I treated my mother and sister. Not quite right, but good enough at the time. Didn't DARE touch a girl in a 'friendly way' 

I was quite typical with my mates.  I must admit, the waters were muddied a bit by the madonna/whore dichotomy. Made no practical difference; as much as we said we hoped, whores were pretty thin on the ground amongst the convent girls I dated. But then I had no idea  how to tell the difference .By the time I knew how, I had become a bit less judgemental . 

Perhaps unusually, it was my mum who taught me  "No means No, and it means STOP" 

Still didn't quite get  the boiler suit brigade  separatist feminists. 

I did so some 'women's studies' at university. This was examining the role of women in different cultures, including an Australian mining community . The penny started to drop.

The 'me too' movement neither surprised nor shocked me .Powerful, but inadequate men have always behaved badly to everyone, including women. Like rape, such  behaviour is  I think more about power than sex.
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#52

Me too
(08-14-2019, 05:08 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 03:25 PM)Minimalist Wrote: When last I heard Biden wasn't bragging about grabbing anyone by the pussy.

Saying someone isn't as bad as Trump is pretty faint praise. Angel

To use the example I like to use, it's like saying Hitler wasn't so bad because he killed less people than Mao.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#53

Me too
(08-14-2019, 07:13 PM)Minimalist Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 05:08 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 03:25 PM)Minimalist Wrote: When last I heard Biden wasn't bragging about grabbing anyone by the pussy.

Saying someone isn't as bad as Trump is pretty faint praise.  Angel

That's a stretch.

How about this:

There are plenty of good things to say about Biden. Saying that he hasn't bragged about grabbing someone's pussy isn't saying much, because I'm hoping most people can boast that.


(08-14-2019, 08:21 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 05:08 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 03:25 PM)Minimalist Wrote: When last I heard Biden wasn't bragging about grabbing anyone by the pussy.

Saying someone isn't as bad as Trump is pretty faint praise.  Angel

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

If he gets the nomination, for sure. I'm not going to sit the election out because my favorite candidate didn't get nominated.
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#54

Me too
Trump can grab women's vaginas, but Biden can't hug anyone?

Conservatives are so ridiculous.
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#55

Me too
(08-15-2019, 04:04 AM)Kimdal Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 06:15 PM)Dom Wrote: I think there is a genetic change going on here, when I was a kid most people lived in villages and small towns where everyone knew everyone. There was a lot more touching and a lot more trust, you would automatically assume the person had good intentions. Biden grew up in that time also.

Fast forward to living among strangers, obviously that automatic trust becomes an endangerment. It has become important to vet everyone for a while, to get to know them well before allowing them into personal space.
So true for me, too. But many of my generation (I’m 50) have lived in cities all their lives. I guess their childhood has been less trustworthy towards other people. I think parents in that time, some decades ago, warned their children about strangers. The attitude has become much more suspicious nowadays, though.

I like children, talk to them and play with them. But I’m afarid of showing it if I’m not a close friend of the parents. If a middle-aged man like me starts talking to a child (e.g. in children’s playground), many observers would think of me at least as potential pedophile and would therefore pay close attention. I find that (=assumed likely pedophile) sad and heartbreaking, even though understandable.

We were not warned about strangers when I was a kid. We came home from school at 1pm, ate lunch and did homework. Then we were free to go until dark. We got on our bicycles and rode as far as we could with the curfew. I always had a love for animals, so I talked to everyone who had a pet. Strangers offered us apples from their trees and the like. One lady always gave us cookies. It was all ok. And I lived where the even then cosmopolitan city of Munich met farms and nature. Our group consisted of all the neighborhood kids, gender irrelevant. At age 10 I went to school on the other side of Munich, using public transportation, changing from bus to tram. I did so with one other girl from the neighborhood, and much of the time, alone. I went to the park by myself, the city library, the ice rink, the public pool. 

People hugged you when you cried, or when you had done something good. They patted you on the head as encouragement. Touching was communication, more effective than words.

It was a different world, and may I say, in that regard, a much better one. I can't even imagine what it must feel like to be watched 24/7, to not have freedom to roam all summer as child.
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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#56

Me too
I lived in a rural housing tract with few amenities. The nearest library was 7 miles away and until I was 12 my mother didn't have a driver's license. At the time we moved in, the nearest grocery store was 7 miles away, just like the library. My dad would take my mother to the store and sit in the car while she shopped.  No buses, the school was a 1/2 mile away. We roamed all over the hills and fields around the area, being sure to get home in time for meals. Only a few grouchy people were around, and we just stayed away from them. Nobody was all that bodily familiar, though. That's a US thing, in general. I don't generally want anyone within arm's reach except by invitation.
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#57

Me too
(08-15-2019, 04:08 PM)Fireball Wrote: I lived in a rural housing tract with few amenities. The nearest library was 7 miles away and until I was 12 my mother didn't have a driver's license. At the time we moved in, the nearest grocery store was 7 miles away, just like the library. My dad would take my mother to the store and sit in the car while she shopped.  No buses, the school was a 1/2 mile away. We roamed all over the hills and fields around the area, being sure to get home in time for meals. Only a few grouchy people were around, and we just stayed away from them. Nobody was all that bodily familiar, though. That's a US thing, in general. I don't generally want anyone within arm's reach except by invitation.

Perhaps it is more regional than just the US. The US is really a bunch of different cultures. You have Biden, for whom hugging is so normal that he is not even aware of it anymore. It's like a handshake is to most people, or pointing a finger at a person like trump likes to do. I know a couple of women in this area who hug every time we meet and every time we part ways, and so do their kids. They don't give it a second thought, it's so ingrained. Lots of people hug when someone has died, even if they don't normally hug. People playing sports seem to hug a lot. It's a human trait that is being abandoned by social evolution. And, as is the case with most traits, some of us have none of it, some have an abundance, and the majority falls somewhere in the middle.


For me, seeing Biden hugging people warms the cockles of my heart. I haven't noticed anyone trying to move away, that would change my impression.


Personally, I am not a hugger, but I am fine when someone initiates a hug.
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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#58

Me too
Stephanie Carter, the wife of former Secretary of Defense Ashton B. Carter, is coming to Joe Biden’s defense
amid claims the former vice president touched and kissed a woman inappropriately at a political event in 2014.
Carter says a viral photo showing Biden touching her the following year was taken out of context.

The photograph shows the vice president with his hands on Stephanie Carter’s shoulders, possibly whispering
into her ear, during her husband’s swearing-in ceremony on 17 Feb 2015.

[Image: 5ca225982400009d00043886.jpeg]

Carter said that on the day of her husband’s swearing-in, she slipped on ice and fell outside the Pentagon.
Arriving at the White House, she was "self-conscious and tentative" about the fall when a reporter asked her
if she was doing all right. Biden “could sense I was uncharacteristically nervous,” Carter wrote, "and quickly
gave me a hug".

And as her husband was giving remarks, Biden leaned in to tell her "thank you for letting him do this" and
"kept his hands on my shoulders as a means of offering his support".

Dylan Stableford, Senior Editor, Yahoo News, 2 April 2019.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#59

Me too
That's but a few drops of Truth in a virtual ocean of propaganda. They'll continue to use that image throughout the campaign, with disgustingly good effect.
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#60

Me too
(08-15-2019, 04:58 PM)Dom Wrote:
(08-15-2019, 04:08 PM)Fireball Wrote: I lived in a rural housing tract with few amenities. The nearest library was 7 miles away and until I was 12 my mother didn't have a driver's license. At the time we moved in, the nearest grocery store was 7 miles away, just like the library. My dad would take my mother to the store and sit in the car while she shopped.  No buses, the school was a 1/2 mile away. We roamed all over the hills and fields around the area, being sure to get home in time for meals. Only a few grouchy people were around, and we just stayed away from them. Nobody was all that bodily familiar, though. That's a US thing, in general. I don't generally want anyone within arm's reach except by invitation.

Perhaps it is more regional than just the US. The US is really a bunch of different cultures. You have Biden, for whom hugging is so normal that he is not even aware of it anymore. It's like a handshake is to most people, or pointing a finger at a person like trump likes to do. I know a couple of women in this area who hug every time we meet and every time we part ways, and so do their kids. They don't give it a second thought, it's so ingrained. Lots of people hug when someone has died, even if they don't normally hug. People playing sports seem to hug a lot. It's a human trait that is being abandoned by social evolution. And, as is the case with most traits, some of us have none of it, some have an abundance, and the majority falls somewhere in the middle.


For me, seeing Biden hugging people warms the cockles of my heart. I haven't noticed anyone trying to move away, that would change my impression.


Personally, I am not a hugger, but I am fine when someone initiates a hug.

By the same token, we used to kiss good bye and good night in our family. Don't know when it changed, probably somewhere in my teen years.
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#61

Me too
(08-15-2019, 08:42 PM)Fireball Wrote: By the same token, we used to kiss good bye and good night in our family. Don't know when it changed, probably somewhere in my teen years.

When my two sisters and I were kids, my parents had us pray together every night before we went to bed.  

Now I prefer the parody version:

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
And if I die before the dawn,
Just throw my body on the lawn.

hobo
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#62

Me too
(08-15-2019, 08:42 PM)Fireball Wrote: By the same token, we used to kiss good bye and good night in our family. Don't know when it changed, probably somewhere in my teen years.

Sure. But the equation changes when the variables are strangers. I still hug my son, who's 21. But I'm cognizant of situation and subject. I don't touch strangers without their permission or invitation, unless it's a matter of assisting them out of a jam.
<Insert intelligent thought here>
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#63

Me too
(08-16-2019, 02:27 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(08-15-2019, 08:42 PM)Fireball Wrote: By the same token, we used to kiss good bye and good night in our family. Don't know when it changed, probably somewhere in my teen years.

Sure. But the equation changes when the variables are strangers. I still hug my son, who's 21. But I'm cognizant of situation and subject. I don't touch strangers without their permission or invitation, unless it's a matter of assisting them out of a jam.

Right. I wouldn't imagine doing it, even as a kid, only with family.
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#64

Me too
I’m a hugger. But I only hug family and friends who like to be hugged. I would never hug anyone in a work environment.  I think doing that sort of thing—even if well-meaning—has the potential to be perceived in all sorts of ways, not too mention make someone feel extremely uncomfortable.  You can be a hugger just control yourself, ffs.
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#65

Me too
(08-16-2019, 02:57 AM)Jenny Wrote: I’m a hugger. But I only hug family and friends who like to be hugged. I would never hug anyone in a work environment.  I think doing that sort of thing—even if well-meaning—has the potential to be perceived in all sorts of ways, not too mention make someone feel extremely uncomfortable.  You can be a hugger just control yourself, ffs.

I agree, but there might be rare exceptions. I have been hugged once in a work environment. I had got a new job and was the very last time in the office, having a farewell party. I had become friends with 15 years younger female. She was really sad because of me leaving and she came to hug me with everyone else being around. I felt it kind of daughterly hug and it was very sweet. She was saying ”I’m going to miss you so much”, only without words.
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#66

Me too
(08-16-2019, 03:47 AM)Kimdal Wrote:
(08-16-2019, 02:57 AM)Jenny Wrote: I’m a hugger. But I only hug family and friends who like to be hugged. I would never hug anyone in a work environment.  I think doing that sort of thing—even if well-meaning—has the potential to be perceived in all sorts of ways, not too mention make someone feel extremely uncomfortable.  You can be a hugger just control yourself, ffs.

I agree, but there might be rare exceptions. I have been hugged once in a work environment. I had got a new job and was the very last time in the office, having a farewell party. I had become friends with 15 years younger female. She was really sad because of me leaving and she came to hug me with everyone else being around. I felt it kind of daughterly hug and it was very sweet. She was saying ”I’m going to miss you so much”, only without words.

I agree in a situation like that it’s different as you’re leaving the office environment.
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