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#26

Me too
I have mixed feelings about this. I don't have mixed feelings that it is creepy every time I've seen a high school football coach smack his team on their asses.
Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
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#27

Me too
[Image: 56315667_10100705316134849_4410523120515...e=5D058153]

Metoought 'twas funny Modest
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#28

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Technically it should be "ghost" hands, since there wasn't any actual contact, but I guess that would be hard to show.
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#29

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(04-10-2019, 09:15 PM)Vera Wrote: [Image: 56315667_10100705316134849_4410523120515...e=5D058153]

Metoought 'twas funny  Modest

Wait. Is Biden now accused of tit-grabbing? That last I heard, it was all creepy shoulder touches and head kisses, nothing sexual.
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#30

Me too
It's not the same, but it's worth remembering that creating a hostile environment for one class of people is also considered wrong.
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#31

Me too
Sorry for late joining. I found this forum just last week.

(04-06-2019, 05:52 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:
(04-06-2019, 02:53 PM)Dom Wrote: Personally, I am not at all touchy feely. But I don't think it's right to force other people to abandon all physical contact. Because with this type scrutiny, you will end up with a society where people can't act naturally around each other anymore and are even more alienated from each other than they are already.

I think we need to allow people's individual personalities, but speak up when we don't like something. I have been in families where everyone hugged and kissed all the time. It's natural for them. My family never did any of it. Maybe I am the one who is missing something that would be a good thing? I don't get any comfort from it, should I prevent others from being able to obtain that comfort?

It's tricky. On one side, you have a person who wants to express themselves by touching other people, and on the other, you have someone who doesn't want to be touched (that way). I would generally side with the second person.

"Playing safe" seems good, but it's still tricky. Not being hugged may be insulting, too.

I understand Dom very well. I know a lot of people that were not used to hugging and don't like it. I'm quite the opposite, though. I was not used to hugging, but that has made me hungry for hugging. However, I try to be very considerate. I don't initiate hugging strangers and younger females (I'm male), but never get offended by someone initiating hugging me.

The most difficult situations for me are gatherings (e.g. large family meeting or church) where people tend to hug each other. There may be persons I'm not sure if I should hug or not. Both options might be wrong and insulting, depending on individual preference. At least I feel insulted if a person I considered friend hugs almost everyone else but me.

What comes to sexuality of hugging, it's not always clear to me what other people consider or mean by "sexual". For me "sexual" is not always, or even usually sexual intention, but sexual as gender making a difference. For me it feels different to hug an old woman to hugging an old man. The former is "motherly" hug and the latter is "fatherly" hug. To me gender/sex matters how I feel the touch of another person, in general. This is because of human sexuality (and maybe because of my sensitivity, too), but saying that sexuality makes it feel different, sounds freaky at the least, when comparing hugging grandma to grandpa. 

It's also interesting that even though younger females might feel uncomfortable if I hugged them, it seems to be that older females would almost always prefer me to hug them. Is my perception incorrect, or why is this so?
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#32

Me too
(08-14-2019, 09:24 AM)Kimdal Wrote: Sorry for late joining. I found this forum just last week.

(04-06-2019, 05:52 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:
(04-06-2019, 02:53 PM)Dom Wrote: Personally, I am not at all touchy feely. But I don't think it's right to force other people to abandon all physical contact. Because with this type scrutiny, you will end up with a society where people can't act naturally around each other anymore and are even more alienated from each other than they are already.

I think we need to allow people's individual personalities, but speak up when we don't like something. I have been in families where everyone hugged and kissed all the time. It's natural for them. My family never did any of it. Maybe I am the one who is missing something that would be a good thing? I don't get any comfort from it, should I prevent others from being able to obtain that comfort?

It's tricky. On one side, you have a person who wants to express themselves by touching other people, and on the other, you have someone who doesn't want to be touched (that way). I would generally side with the second person.

"Playing safe" seems good, but it's still tricky. Not being hugged may be insulting, too.

I understand Dom very well. I know a lot of people that were not used to hugging and don't like it. I'm quite the opposite, though. I was not used to hugging, but that has made me hungry for hugging. However, I try to be very considerate. I don't initiate hugging strangers and younger females (I'm male), but never get offended by someone initiating hugging me.

The most difficult situations for me are gatherings (e.g. large family meeting or church) where people tend to hug each other. There may be persons I'm not sure if I should hug or not. Both options might be wrong and insulting, depending on individual preference. At least I feel insulted if a person I considered friend hugs almost everyone else but me.

What comes to sexuality of hugging, it's not always clear to me what other people consider or mean by "sexual". For me "sexual" is not always, or even usually sexual intention, but sexual as gender making a difference. For me it feels different to hug an old woman to hugging an old man. The former is "motherly" hug and the latter is "fatherly" hug. To me gender/sex matters how I feel the touch of another person, in general. This is because of human sexuality (and maybe because of my sensitivity, too), but saying that sexuality makes it feel different, sounds freaky at the least, when comparing hugging grandma to grandpa. 

It's also interesting that even though younger females might feel uncomfortable if I hugged them, it seems to be that older females would almost always prefer me to hug them. Is my perception incorrect, or why is this so?

I think younger women are more likely to perceive it as sexual - hormones and all that jazz.
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#33

Me too
(08-14-2019, 01:19 PM)Dom Wrote: I think younger women are more likely to perceive it as sexual - hormones and all that jazz.

It could just be cultural differences, too.

I think the whole thrust of this is "what do people consider normal", and that answer is different person to person.
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#34

Me too
I had a guy grab me and kiss me on the lips, without my consent, once ... and he claimed it was just a thank you for helping him at his job. I am guessing that qualifies as a #metoo experience? All forms of sexual harassment count, right? And it doesn't matter if the victim and/or perp is male or female, right?

But yeah, of course, there is a lot more sexual harassment from guys than girls and most of it is directed at women. But there are exceptions, of course. And the rate at which women sexually harass people, of all genders, is definitely higher than most people seem to think. Just not as high as men.

I also wouldn't be surprised, at all, if the women who tend to sexually harass people have an above-average testosterone level for their gender. That wouldn't surprise me one bit. Testosterone is responsible for a LOT of the world's problems, lol.

But I guess estrogen is responsible for a lot of the world's problems too. As over-protective mothers, who fuck up their kids by being too protective, probably have too much estrogen.

I think we can all agree that hormones fucking suck, lol. Even the whole touchy-feely creepy personality trait probably comes from too much oxytocin (when the intent is not to sexually harass, I mean).
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#35

Me too
When last I heard Biden wasn't bragging about grabbing anyone by the pussy.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#36

Me too
(08-14-2019, 03:25 PM)Minimalist Wrote: When last I heard Biden wasn't bragging about grabbing anyone by the pussy.

Saying someone isn't as bad as Trump is pretty faint praise. Angel
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#37

Me too
(08-14-2019, 03:25 PM)Minimalist Wrote: When last I heard Biden wasn't bragging about grabbing anyone by the pussy.

Yes, but when people pointed out his past behavior was more than creepy and on the inappropriate side, instead of listening and trying to improve he made jokes and was dismissive. Yuck. Sure not on the same level of Trump, but he’s still a creep who doesn’t give a fuck about other people’s personal space and boundaries. Even when everyone is telling him to STOP.
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#38

Me too
(08-14-2019, 05:45 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 03:25 PM)Minimalist Wrote: When last I heard Biden wasn't bragging about grabbing anyone by the pussy.

Yes, but when people pointed out his past behavior was more than creepy and on the inappropriate side, instead of listening and trying to improve he made jokes and was dismissive. Yuck. Sure not on the same level of Trump, but he’s still a creep who doesn’t give a fuck about other people’s personal space and boundaries. Even when everyone is telling him to STOP.

My generation would see him as a kindly uncle and not the least bit sexual or creepy. Just a warm, affectionate person. 

I think there is a genetic change going on here, when I was a kid most people lived in villages and small towns where everyone knew everyone. There was a lot more touching and a lot more trust, you would automatically assume the person had good intentions. Biden grew up in that time also.

Fast forward to living among strangers, obviously that automatic trust becomes an endangerment. It has become important to vet everyone for a while, to get to know them well before allowing them into personal space.

So, I continue to see the kindly uncle, while you see an intrusive stranger.
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#39

Me too
This...

(08-14-2019, 06:15 PM)Dom Wrote: My generation would see him as a kindly uncle and not the least bit sexual or creepy. Just a warm, affectionate person... 

Too many of the younger, politically-correct, latte-sipping, Chardonnay-quaffing set have a burning
desire to see people like Biden pilloried for being honest and human.  They hate the older generation
for all sorts of self-centred, perceived wrongs, and can't wait to shoot us down.  Fuck them.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#40

Me too
H
(08-14-2019, 06:15 PM)Dom Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 05:45 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 03:25 PM)Minimalist Wrote: When last I heard Biden wasn't bragging about grabbing anyone by the pussy.

Yes, but when people pointed out his past behavior was more than creepy and on the inappropriate side, instead of listening and trying to improve he made jokes and was dismissive. Yuck. Sure not on the same level of Trump, but he’s still a creep who doesn’t give a fuck about other people’s personal space and boundaries. Even when everyone is telling him to STOP.

My generation would see him as a kindly uncle and not the least bit sexual or creepy. Just a warm, affectionate person. 

I think there is a genetic change going on here, when I was a kid most people lived in villages and small towns where everyone knew everyone. There was a lot more touching and a lot more trust, you would automatically assume the person had good intentions. Biden grew up in that time also.

Fast forward to living among strangers, obviously that automatic trust becomes an endangerment. It has become important to vet everyone for a while, to get to know them well before allowing them into personal space.

So, I continue to see the kindly uncle, while you see an intrusive stranger.
I’m probably closer to your generation than Smerc’s, but I don’t see him as a kindly uncle.  I see him as a creepy uncle who hugs you too close and too long.  

 I also think he comes off very poorly in interviews and on the debate stage, and that in a general election, puppet will eat him for lunch.  He is almost my least favorite candidate in the democratic field.  I particularly hate how he keeps invoking “Barack.”  I like him slightly more than Williamson and O’Rourke, but I would prefer anyone else at the top of the ticket.
god, ugh
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#41

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(08-14-2019, 05:08 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 03:25 PM)Minimalist Wrote: When last I heard Biden wasn't bragging about grabbing anyone by the pussy.

Saying someone isn't as bad as Trump is pretty faint praise.  Angel

That's a stretch.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#42

Me too
(08-14-2019, 06:28 PM)SYZ Wrote: Too many of the younger, politically-correct, latte-sipping, Chardonnay-quaffing set have a burning
desire to see people like Biden pilloried for being honest and human.  They hate the older generation
for all sorts of self-centred, perceived wrongs, and can't wait to shoot us down.  Fuck them.

Considering the bolded part, I think this comment is an excellent example of projection.

In my opinion, Biden is sort of a creep, a largely inoffensive creep, but a creep nonetheless. His habit makes him disrespectful of women even though he doesn't specifically want to be. I would pin this on his age and culture. When he was a young men, treating women like toys, children or at least as "inferior adults" was customary an reflected itself on people's behaviors. Biden's seems to be of those people who never realised that those behaviors are invasive and disrespectful; that somehow his intent should be the only thing that matters and that people should adapt to him and not him to other people.

It's like those people who treat everybody like friends and act like so. They use nicknames, they throw false insults as jokes, pass comments, touch people in friendly manners. These are all things we do with friends. Except they do it to almost everybody. The call themselves friendly and are so. They are very sociable and nice persons in general, but are also very selfish. They assume that everybody wants to be friends with them while this isn't the case.
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#43

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Little "Joe" is always doing the thinking. Some are just better at masquerading those thoughts as their own. [Image: Gagged.png]
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#44

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(08-14-2019, 05:08 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 03:25 PM)Minimalist Wrote: When last I heard Biden wasn't bragging about grabbing anyone by the pussy.

Saying someone isn't as bad as Trump is pretty faint praise.  Angel

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
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#45

Me too
(08-14-2019, 07:13 PM)epronovost Wrote: It's like those people who treat everybody like friends and act like so. They use nicknames, they throw false insults as jokes, pass comments, touch people in friendly manners. These are all things we do with friends. Except they do it to almost everybody. The call themselves friendly and are so. They are very sociable and nice persons in general, but are also very selfish. They assume that everybody wants to be friends with them while this isn't the case.

I'm a bubble-person. I want a human-free arm's-length bubble around me when it comes to strangers. I'll invite them in if it feels good. I don't like it when strangers press close and won't hesitate to ask them to step back. It's a boundary of mine. I don't think I'm asking too much to ask it being respected, and I don't appreciate the presumption.
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#46

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(08-14-2019, 08:36 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I'm a bubble-person. I want a human-free arm's-length bubble around me when it comes to strangers. I'll invite them in if it feels good. I don't like it when strangers press close and won't hesitate to ask them to step back. It's a boundary of mine. I don't think I'm asking too much to ask it being respected, and I don't appreciate the presumption.

I believe I've offended a few people by refusing their hugs.  I still hate it, even though I give in on certain occasions.

The same goes when people want to take a picture of me.  I typically walk away from such situations.
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#47

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(04-06-2019, 02:56 PM)skyking Wrote: That's Joe just being Joe includes all the times he shot off his mouth in inappropriate ways.
He's fortunate to have gotten as far as he has in politics LOL.

If he's the one that can get Trump out of the White House, fine. But, he's a very poor candidate. He can't speak publically very well. He mumbles, he doesn't look up, and look people in the eye. He's not an engaging, forceful, interesting speaker. If all that is due to age, then he's too old. His campaign doesn't "stand for" anything.
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#48

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(08-14-2019, 08:40 PM)Alan V Wrote: I believe I've offended a few people by refusing their hugs.  I still hate it, even though I give in on certain occasions.

The same goes when people want to take a picture of me.  I typically walk away from such situations.

I've mastered the side-hug.

On the other hand, I'm a camera-hound.
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#49

Me too
(08-14-2019, 06:15 PM)Dom Wrote: I think there is a genetic change going on here, when I was a kid most people lived in villages and small towns where everyone knew everyone. There was a lot more touching and a lot more trust, you would automatically assume the person had good intentions. Biden grew up in that time also.

Fast forward to living among strangers, obviously that automatic trust becomes an endangerment. It has become important to vet everyone for a while, to get to know them well before allowing them into personal space.
So true for me, too. But many of my generation (I’m 50) have lived in cities all their lives. I guess their childhood has been less trustworthy towards other people. I think parents in that time, some decades ago, warned their children about strangers. The attitude has become much more suspicious nowadays, though.

I like children, talk to them and play with them. But I’m afarid of showing it if I’m not a close friend of the parents. If a middle-aged man like me starts talking to a child (e.g. in children’s playground), many observers would think of me at least as potential pedophile and would therefore pay close attention. I find that (=assumed likely pedophile) sad and heartbreaking, even though understandable.
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#50

Me too
How about, don't make excuses for stupid bullshit? There, solved the problem.
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