Welcome to Atheist Discussion, a new community created by former members of The Thinking Atheist forum.

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
#26

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:08 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 01:51 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 01:49 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Indeed.

nice, so is historical jesus fiction or non-fiction?

If you're only talking absolutes, you're not being serious.  That's not how the study of history works.  If this is just some kind of philosopher's "gotcha" game, I'm not interested.  Something that far back in time, you can only deal in likelihoods, some being more, well, likely than others.
you made up the story just a few minutes ago, WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM ANSWERING QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR STORY?
you should know, you made it up
Reply
#27

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:13 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:06 AM)Grandizer Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:00 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: so who is historical jesus if not biblical jesus?
some guy named sam? a collection of sams or maybe elmer?

According to some scholars like Bart Ehrman, he was an apocalypticist preacher who preached the imminent coming of a physical kingdom of God. The Jesus you read about in the Gospels is an embellishment of this figure according to the theologies and beliefs of their respective authors.
I read some of his writings, lame
what is the source of the story of historical Jesus??
I have read his shit, it's lacking in substance

Based on your strawman of his argument, I really doubt it. Bart Ehrman didn't make up anything, he studies the text to glean what truths can he made about the historical Jesus based on fairly reasonable criteria.
Reply
#28

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:15 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:08 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 01:51 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: nice, so is historical jesus fiction or non-fiction?

If you're only talking absolutes, you're not being serious.  That's not how the study of history works.  If this is just some kind of philosopher's "gotcha" game, I'm not interested.  Something that far back in time, you can only deal in likelihoods, some being more, well, likely than others.
you made up the story just a few minutes ago, WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM ANSWERING QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR STORY?
you should know, you made it up

Hmmm.  You'll have to remind me what my story was.  I remember saying biblical Jesus walks on water, etc., and that historical Jesus doesn't because history knows of no such thing...what did you need clarification with?
Reply
#29

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:21 AM)Grandizer Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:13 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:06 AM)Grandizer Wrote: According to some scholars like Bart Ehrman, he was an apocalypticist preacher who preached the imminent coming of a physical kingdom of God. The Jesus you read about in the Gospels is an embellishment of this figure according to the theologies and beliefs of their respective authors.
I read some of his writings, lame
what is the source of the story of historical Jesus??
I have read his shit, it's lacking in substance

Based on your strawman of his argument, I really doubt it. Bart Ehrman didn't make up anything, he studies the text to glean what truths can he made about the historical Jesus based on fairly reasonable criteria.
his judgment? is that what you respect?
Reply
#30

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:22 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:15 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:08 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: If you're only talking absolutes, you're not being serious.  That's not how the study of history works.  If this is just some kind of philosopher's "gotcha" game, I'm not interested.  Something that far back in time, you can only deal in likelihoods, some being more, well, likely than others.
you made up the story just a few minutes ago, WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM ANSWERING QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR STORY?
you should know, you made it up

Hmmm.  You'll have to remind me what my story was.  I remember saying biblical Jesus walks on water, etc., and that historical Jesus doesn't because history knows of no such thing...what did you need clarification with?
I asked you what the source of the character historical jesus is and you admitted it was your own reasoning that you are relying on to posit a historical jesus
that is your story
Reply
#31

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:25 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:22 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:15 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: you made up the story just a few minutes ago, WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM ANSWERING QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR STORY?
you should know, you made it up

Hmmm.  You'll have to remind me what my story was.  I remember saying biblical Jesus walks on water, etc., and that historical Jesus doesn't because history knows of no such thing...what did you need clarification with?
I asked you what the source of the character historical jesus is and you admitted it was your own reasoning that you are relying on to posit a historical jesus
that is your story

Ah okay yes.  Yes I certainly could be wrong and it turns out there was no historical Jesus at all.  I find there are enough peculiarities to warrant a "historical" Jesus (first century hippy preacher-healer-apocalyptic asshole who thinks he's the Son of God, wanders around the communities of Galilee, tries to go Big Time, gets punked in Jerusalem) while obviously there wasn't a "biblical" Jesus who literally rose from the dead, was born from a virgin, gets pissed off at fig trees and burns them alive, etc.
Reply
#32

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:29 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:25 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:22 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Hmmm.  You'll have to remind me what my story was.  I remember saying biblical Jesus walks on water, etc., and that historical Jesus doesn't because history knows of no such thing...what did you need clarification with?
I asked you what the source of the character historical jesus is and you admitted it was your own reasoning that you are relying on to posit a historical jesus
that is your story

Ah okay yes.  Yes I certainly could be wrong and it turns out there was no historical Jesus at all.  I find there are enough peculiarities to warrant a "historical" Jesus (first century hippy preacher-healer-apocalyptic asshole who thinks he's the Son of God, wanders around the communities of Galilee, tries to go Big Time, gets punked in Jerusalem) while obviously there wasn't a "biblical" Jesus who literally rose from the dead, was born from a virgin, gets pissed off at fig trees and burns them alive, etc.
yes that is your understanding
why do you believe there was the hippy?
Reply
#33

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 01:40 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: what is the source of this understanding? what is the evidence you are using to suggest this?

The best evidence against the supposed truth of the Bible is the Bible itself.

The best weapon against Christianity, though, is logic.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
The following 1 user Likes EvieTheAvocado's post:
  • Gwaithmir
Reply
#34

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:33 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 01:40 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: what is the source of this understanding? what is the evidence you are using to suggest this?

The best evidence against the supposed truth of the Bible is the Bible itself.

The best weapon against Christianity, though, is logic.

so you believe there is a historical jesus because the bible
Reply
#35

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
Again I could be totally wrong. I don't think the entire NT is made up, but I think much of it is bullshit designed to correlate with OT stuff or bullshit designed to manipulate the current churches of late first century long after any "historical" Jesus was gone, but I think it more likely than not the stories of the wandering wonder-worker had a basis in someone who was (meaning he believed himself to be and others believed him to be) a wandering wonder worker. I find the alternative, that the NT is completely imaginative, less likely.
Reply
#36

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:34 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: so you believe there is a historical jesus because the bible

What? That's not what I said at all. I never said that I believed in either Jesus.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
Reply
#37

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:37 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:34 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: so you believe there is a historical jesus because the bible

What? That's not what I said at all. I never said that I believed in either Jesus.
IM NOT DEBATING EXISTENCE OF EITHER CHARACTER, IM SAYING THEY ARE THE SAME
Reply
#38

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
Careful Evie. Dude's going caps on us.
The following 3 users Like jerry mcmasters's post:
  • julep, Smercury44, EvieTheAvocado
Reply
#39

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:38 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:37 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:34 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: so you believe there is a historical jesus because the bible

What? That's not what I said at all. I never said that I believed in either Jesus.
IM NOT DEBATING EXISTENCE OF EITHER CHARACTER, IM SAYING THEY ARE THE SAME

You said "so you believe there is a historical jesus". But I didn't say I did.

I didn't say anything about belief in or existence of either Jesus either.

I explained how they can't possibly be the same because they have completely different definitions.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
Reply
#40

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
S Outlaw, there's a pleasant I'M DRUNK thread you can shift over too if you need to chill a bit.
The following 1 user Likes jerry mcmasters's post:
  • Schrodinger's Outlaw
Reply
#41

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:36 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Again I could be totally wrong.  I don't think the entire NT is made up, but I think much of it is bullshit designed to correlate with OT stuff or bullshit designed to manipulate the current churches of late first century long after any "historical" Jesus was gone, but I think it more likely than not the stories of the wandering wonder-worker had a basis in someone who was (meaning he believed himself to be and others believed him to be) a wandering wonder worker.  I find the alternative, that the NT is completely imaginative, less likely.
WHAT HISTORICAL JESUS, THE ONE YOU MADE UP A FEW MINUTES AGO OR THE ONE YOU BELIEVED IN BEFORE I ASKED ABOUT IT?
Reply
#42

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:40 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: S Outlaw, there's a pleasant I'M DRUNK thread you can shift over too if you need to chill a bit.

I would say that this guy is the smartest guy I've ever seen on AD yet ... but I'm against making statements that are the direct opposite of what I actually mean.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
Reply
#43

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:40 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:36 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Again I could be totally wrong.  I don't think the entire NT is made up, but I think much of it is bullshit designed to correlate with OT stuff or bullshit designed to manipulate the current churches of late first century long after any "historical" Jesus was gone, but I think it more likely than not the stories of the wandering wonder-worker had a basis in someone who was (meaning he believed himself to be and others believed him to be) a wandering wonder worker.  I find the alternative, that the NT is completely imaginative, less likely.
WHAT HISTORICAL JESUS, THE ONE YOU MADE UP A FEW MINUTES AGO OR THE ONE YOU BELIEVED IN BEFORE I ASKED ABOUT IT?

Goddammit I knew this was all just a philosopher's fucking "gotcha" game.  What exactly have I said so far that is not crystal clear?
Reply
#44

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
Jerry said: Again I could be totally wrong. I don't think the entire NT is made up, but I think much of it is bullshit designed to correlate with OT stuff or bullshit designed to manipulate the current churches of late first century long after any "historical" Jesus was gone, but I think it more likely than not the stories of the wandering wonder-worker had a basis in someone who was (meaning he believed himself to be and others believed him to be) a wandering wonder worker. I find the alternative, that the NT is completely imaginative, less likely
The following 1 user Likes jerry mcmasters's post:
  • EvieTheAvocado
Reply
#45

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:40 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: WHAT HISTORICAL JESUS, THE ONE YOU MADE UP A FEW MINUTES AGO OR THE ONE YOU BELIEVED IN BEFORE I ASKED ABOUT IT?

Newsflash: All definitions of anything are made up.

You don't seem to understand the basic essence vs existence distinction.

I didn't say I believed in either Jesus.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
Reply
#46

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
LOUD NOISES!!!
The following 3 users Like jerry mcmasters's post:
  • EvieTheAvocado, Smercury44, Aliza
Reply
#47

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:41 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:40 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:36 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote: Again I could be totally wrong.  I don't think the entire NT is made up, but I think much of it is bullshit designed to correlate with OT stuff or bullshit designed to manipulate the current churches of late first century long after any "historical" Jesus was gone, but I think it more likely than not the stories of the wandering wonder-worker had a basis in someone who was (meaning he believed himself to be and others believed him to be) a wandering wonder worker.  I find the alternative, that the NT is completely imaginative, less likely.
WHAT HISTORICAL JESUS, THE ONE YOU MADE UP A FEW MINUTES AGO OR THE ONE YOU BELIEVED IN BEFORE I ASKED ABOUT IT?

Goddammit I knew this was all just a philosopher's fucking "gotcha" game.  What exactly have I said so far that is not crystal clear?

This guy is a philosopher?! Color me insulted!
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
The following 1 user Likes EvieTheAvocado's post:
  • Smercury44
Reply
#48

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:40 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:38 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote:
(12-05-2018, 02:37 AM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: What? That's not what I said at all. I never said that I believed in either Jesus.
IM NOT DEBATING EXISTENCE OF EITHER CHARACTER, IM SAYING THEY ARE THE SAME

You said "so you believe there is a historical jesus". But I didn't say I did.

I didn't say anything about belief in or existence of either Jesus either.

I explained how they can't possibly be the same because they have completely different definitions.
define both then....
Reply
#49

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
(12-05-2018, 02:44 AM)Schrodinger's Outlaw Wrote: define both then....

I already did in my first post in your thread lol.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
Reply
#50

Historical Jesus, Biblical Jesus
and then you puss out be deriding defintions
intellecutally honest despite spelling fuck you`
Reply




Users browsing this thread: Free, 2 Guest(s)