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Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
#51

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-19-2019, 06:51 PM)Mark Wrote:
(01-19-2019, 03:48 PM)Dom Wrote:
(01-19-2019, 02:55 PM)Mediocharist Wrote: Give access to clean, highly reliable, and readily accessible methods. and maybe brain murals might become less of a problem... Far as I could find, the most reliable methods are medical-grade overdose, gunshot to the head, and trains. Not necessarily in that order.

Helium


Really, helium would be lethal?  Then all I need to do is buy a tank and perhaps a few party balloons to avoid drawing attention.  Maybe I could record my final words in a Donald Duck voice.

There are societies who aid in suicide and they use Helium and a plastic bag. Nitrogen and argon work too but are less common. http://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/plastic-bag-gas
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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#52

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-19-2019, 03:07 PM)SYZ Wrote: Regardless of what it might seem at times, I personally make it a habit to never lie on forums, particularly those that are important to me—like this one.  What you see is what you get with me.

This is how I do it. I might not reveal everything at any one time, but life is too short to play bullshit online, so I write what I say and say what I write.

And just as in real life, sometimes I'm a peach and sometimes I'm a cunt. I do my best to be decent, lay out back-story even when it reflects poorly on me, and don't worry about what folks think. They don't have to think of me at all and I'm good with that, too. I trust that folks will get the real me, and so I lay it out that way. It's a lot easier on the ole memory cells, too. Braggadocio has a way of catching itself.

Now, I'm not gonna tell just anyone about that time that I -- pardon me, gotta run, dinner is ready.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#53

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-19-2019, 11:34 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(01-19-2019, 03:07 PM)SYZ Wrote: Regardless of what it might seem at times, I personally make it a habit to never lie on forums, particularly those that are important to me—like this one.  What you see is what you get with me.

This is how I do it. I might not reveal everything at any one time, but life is too short to play bullshit online, so I write what I say and say what I write.

And just as in real life, sometimes I'm a peach and sometimes I'm a cunt. I do my best to be decent, lay out back-story even when it reflects poorly on me, and don't worry about what folks think. They don't have to think of me at all and I'm good with that, too. I trust that folks will get the real me, and so I lay it out that way. It's a lot easier on the ole memory cells, too. Braggadocio has a way of catching itself.

Now, I'm not gonna tell just anyone about that time that I -- pardon me, gotta run, dinner is ready.

Indeed. I haven't time in my life to keep track of what lie I said to which person. It's a lot easier to get up in the morning without thinking about that. I know people who lie as a matter of course. Now that I think about it though, nobody ever believes what they say anyway, so I guess it all works out.
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#54

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-20-2019, 01:24 AM)Fireball Wrote: Now that I think about it though, nobody ever believes what they say anyway, so I guess it all works out.

That really is what it boils down to, isn't it? If you shit on your own credibility, that's the bed you get to sleep in.

Much better to simply go warts-and-all and look forward to getting to know the folks who understand that life can be a muddy thing. If nothing else, I know that I've made real friends, at that point.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#55

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-20-2019, 02:11 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 01:24 AM)Fireball Wrote: Now that I think about it though, nobody ever believes what they say anyway, so I guess it all works out.

That really is what it boils down to, isn't it? If you shit on your own credibility, that's the bed you get to sleep in.

Much better to simply go warts-and-all and look forward to getting to know the folks who understand that life can be a muddy thing. If nothing else, I know that I've made real friends, at that point.

I've had people in my life who have expected a coddled reply to a bad situation. Example- I can go as far as to gently explain that their dog is dead. "Doggy Heaven" isn't in the cards. And building false hope by telling someone that the dog ran away and we might be able to find it is beyond reprehensible, in my book.
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#56

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-20-2019, 02:41 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 02:11 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 01:24 AM)Fireball Wrote: Now that I think about it though, nobody ever believes what they say anyway, so I guess it all works out.

That really is what it boils down to, isn't it? If you shit on your own credibility, that's the bed you get to sleep in.

Much better to simply go warts-and-all and look forward to getting to know the folks who understand that life can be a muddy thing. If nothing else, I know that I've made real friends, at that point.

I've had people in my life who have expected a coddled reply to a bad situation. Example- I can go as far as to gently explain that their dog is dead. "Doggy Heaven" isn't in the cards. And building false hope by telling someone that the dog ran away and we might be able to find it is beyond reprehensible, in my book.

Just like here, in real life people have mixed opinions of me, because while I work to be diplomatic, there are some things that tact won't cover over. "Dude, you're fucking up," "Nah, I don't like cocker spaniels", "I'll say this once and then shut up about it," ... those are moments where I know someone might be annoyed that my desire to be tactful doesn't outweigh any ugly truth.

It's all good, I like people who can take vinegar as well as sugar. Not everyone can. I've had people walk away from me for simple honesty on my part. Okay, walk away. There's nothing you're going to give me that is worth trading honesty, y'know? 

I don't mind disagreement, but I'll be damned if agreement comes at the cost of me biting my goddamned tongue when you're stepping on me.

Yeah, I'll probably die alone. Oh well. I'll live. Big Grin
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#57

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-20-2019, 02:50 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Yeah, I'll probably die alone. Oh well. I'll live. Big Grin

Just log in here before the bitter end.  I'll chew you out for something or another. Smile
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#58

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-20-2019, 02:52 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 02:50 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Yeah, I'll probably die alone. Oh well. I'll live. Big Grin

Just log in here before the bitter end.  I'll chew you out for something or another. Smile

Brotha invites himself to my deathbed. This is the kinda guy Jerry is, y'all.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#59

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-20-2019, 02:53 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 02:52 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 02:50 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Yeah, I'll probably die alone. Oh well. I'll live. Big Grin

Just log in here before the bitter end.  I'll chew you out for something or another. Smile

Brotha invites himself to my deathbed. This is the kinda guy Jerry is, y'all.

Thumbs Up
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#60

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
Fucking Jerry Deadpan Coffee Drinker
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#61

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-19-2019, 11:34 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: so I write what I say and say what I write.

And just as in real life, sometimes I'm a peach and sometimes I'm a cunt.

Yeah, I mean, me too. I basically live my entire life by thinking aloud.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#62

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-20-2019, 12:15 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(01-19-2019, 11:34 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: so I write what I say and say what I write.

And just as in real life, sometimes I'm a peach and sometimes I'm a cunt.

Yeah, I mean, me too. I basically live my entire life by thinking aloud.

That's not what I meant. I do stay quiet about my own life because often enough it's not interesting. When I do talk about my life, though, there are no lies involved. WYSIWYG.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#63

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-20-2019, 12:24 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 12:15 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(01-19-2019, 11:34 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: so I write what I say and say what I write.

And just as in real life, sometimes I'm a peach and sometimes I'm a cunt.

Yeah, I mean, me too. I basically live my entire life by thinking aloud.

That's not what I meant. I do stay quiet about my own life because often enough it's not interesting. When I do talk about my life, though, there are no lies involved. WYSIWYG.

Oh. Well, you said you both mean what you say and say what you mean ... so I assumed that that is what you meant when you said what you said because that's what that means when that is said.

But I guess you didn't say "always".

Or, maybe what you meant to say was that you do always mean everything that you say but you don't always say everything that you mean.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#64

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-20-2019, 01:13 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 12:24 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 12:15 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: Yeah, I mean, me too. I basically live my entire life by thinking aloud.

That's not what I meant. I do stay quiet about my own life because often enough it's not interesting. When I do talk about my life, though, there are no lies involved. WYSIWYG.

Oh. Well, you said you both mean what you say and say what you mean ... so I assumed that that is what you meant when you said what you said because that's what that means when that is said.

But I guess you didn't say "always".

Exactly. I feel no need to spew every last detail of my life, or thought, or feeling every minute of the day. When I do say something, though, it's straight-up. Not everybody lies about themselves online, Jesse's assertion aside. But no one needs to know what I had for lunch, or why this or that topic affects me because when I was seven years old ...

(01-20-2019, 01:13 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: Or, maybe what you meant to say was that you do always mean everything that you say but you don't always say everything that you mean.

No, I said exactly what I meant.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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#65

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-20-2019, 01:36 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 01:13 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 12:24 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: That's not what I meant. I do stay quiet about my own life because often enough it's not interesting. When I do talk about my life, though, there are no lies involved. WYSIWYG.

Oh. Well, you said you both mean what you say and say what you mean ... so I assumed that that is what you meant when you said what you said because that's what that means when that is said.

But I guess you didn't say "always".

Exactly. I feel no need to spew every last detail of my life, or thought, or feeling every minute of the day. When I do say something, though, it's straight-up. Not everybody lies about themselves online, Jesse's assertion aside. But no one needs to know what I had for lunch, or why this or that topic affects me because when I was seven years old ...

(01-20-2019, 01:13 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: Or, maybe what you meant to say was that you do always mean everything that you say but you don't always say everything that you mean.

No, I said exactly what I meant.

Yabbut, I need to know what you had for lunch!!!
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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#66

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-20-2019, 01:36 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I feel no need to spew every last detail of my life, or thought, or feeling every minute of the day. When I do say something, though, it's straight-up.
See, this does sound exactly like always meaning everything that you say but not always saying everything that you mean.

Quote:No, I said exactly what I meant.

Well, I dunno what more to say, really! The above seems correct.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#67

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-20-2019, 02:39 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 01:36 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I feel no need to spew every last detail of my life, or thought, or feeling every minute of the day. When I do say something, though, it's straight-up.
See, this does sound exactly like always meaning everything that you say but not always saying everything that you mean.

Quote:No, I said exactly what I meant.

Well, I dunno what more to say, really! The above seems correct.

Pretty sure it's more a case of someone saying "I never lie" and you can always trust a person who says that lol.
The universe doesn't give a fuck about you. Don't cry though, at least I do.
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#68

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-21-2019, 01:45 AM)JesseB Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 02:39 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 01:36 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I feel no need to spew every last detail of my life, or thought, or feeling every minute of the day. When I do say something, though, it's straight-up.
See, this does sound exactly like always meaning everything that you say but not always saying everything that you mean.

Quote:No, I said exactly what I meant.

Well, I dunno what more to say, really! The above seems correct.

Pretty sure it's more a case of someone saying "I never lie" and you can always trust a person who says that lol.

You can take what Thump says and go back to cross correlate what he said at some other time, and it'll be the same. Your interpretation, depending on your mood, may be different. Thump is one of the most straightforward people I've ever encountered on the internet. Thumbs Up  Some people just seem to think that it can't be true. Some people impute meaning or slice and dice what he says, but in the end, what he said is what he said. Make of this what you will.
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#69

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-21-2019, 03:45 AM)Fireball Wrote:  Some people just seem to think that it can't be true. Some people impute meaning or slice and dice what he says, but in the end, what he said is what he said. Make of this what you will.

We project our own shadows onto others.
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#70

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-21-2019, 03:45 AM)Fireball Wrote:
(01-21-2019, 01:45 AM)JesseB Wrote:
(01-20-2019, 02:39 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: See, this does sound exactly like always meaning everything that you say but not always saying everything that you mean.


Well, I dunno what more to say, really! The above seems correct.

Pretty sure it's more a case of someone saying "I never lie" and you can always trust a person who says that lol.

You can take what Thump says and go back to cross correlate what he said at some other time, and it'll be the same. Your interpretation, depending on your mood, may be different. Thump is one of the most straightforward people I've ever encountered on the internet. Thumbs Up  Some people just seem to think that it can't be true. Some people impute meaning or slice and dice what he says, but in the end, what he said is what he said. Make of this what you will.

Uh.... You do realize I just don't trust anyone ya? But yes, he's pretty straightforward. That doesn't mean he doesn't lie. And my personal feelings about thump haven't changed since I met him. I don't dislike him at all. His feelings about me may have changed, but I'm pretty tolerant of people as they are. Don't expect or demand perfection. @Thumpalumpacus is over all a pretty decent person. And regardless what he says about me, I stand by that.

Oh and just so you know, I did call him a bigot. To me that isn't an insult. nor should it be.... Maybe other people thought I was trying to insult him by saying that? I wasn't. Hatred of people simply because they hold different ideas or beliefs than you is just something people do, to some extent I assume everyone is probably a bit bigoted. Don't get me wrong, I've insulted him at times too... but that wasn't intended as an insult. He's insulted me too. I'm not particularly offended or bothered by that. Insults have a long and honorable tradition.
The universe doesn't give a fuck about you. Don't cry though, at least I do.
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#71

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
"It's hard to see your mother die from euthanasia, but it was not our decision - it was her decision," says Anneke.

"There is no right or wrong decision. It's hard to decide you want to die but it's as hard to decide, I think, that you want to live. She hated it when someone said: 'It's so brave that you made this decision.' She said choosing to live with dementia is just as brave."


So, because of:

"You can write down what your fears are. What you don't want to experience. But it is a wish. It is an expression of fear, and as we know, people change.

"In the beginning they say: 'Oh no, I don't want to live in an old people's home.' Or, 'I don't want to be put in a wheelchair,' and it happens. People always find ways to cope. That's a beautiful thing about being human."

So she argues that before helping someone to die, doctors must always check that this is still the patient's wish. And with late-stage dementia patients, this is not always possible.

"If you can't talk to a patient, you don't know what the patient wants," she says.


We have:

"It's not unusual for Dutch patients with dementia to request euthanasia, but in the later stages of the disease they may be incapable of reconfirming their consent - one doctor is currently facing prosecution in such a case. But fear of being refused is pushing some to ask to die earlier than they would have liked."


"Yesterday I spoke to a former neighbour on the phone," Annie says. "She said, 'But I don't understand. You can still do everything can't you?' I said, 'Well the point is, first of all I can't. And second, if I wait until the moment has come to stop it'll be too late. I won't be allowed to do euthanasia any more.'



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(@Dom, sorry to bother you, guys, but can we maybe move this to the philosophy and ethics sections. My bad, I know...)
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#72

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
Done.

That is the biggest issue with determining when to call it a day. 

Many degenerative diseases creep so slowly, you don't notice it except occasionally, after you lose another function. That means that you have to decide to leave when you still have some good times left. And that sucks.
[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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#73

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-30-2019, 05:29 PM)Dom Wrote: Done.

That is the biggest issue with determining when to call it a day. 

Many degenerative diseases creep so slowly, you don't notice it except occasionally, after you lose another function. That means that you have to decide to leave when you still have some good times left. And that sucks.

Thanks, Dom.

And that's it, exactly. Like that vile thing in the article I published before that one had the gall to use as an argument *against* euthanasia (even though he was too big of a dishonest coward to actually come out and say it clearly) - some degenerative diseases you can live with for a long time. He was talking more about neurological diseases, but how are either dementia or something that slowly kills your body's capacity to do anything, up till breathe, an argument against euthanasia, because you can live with them for *longer*!

I swear, I get angry every time I think of that disgusting article.
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#74

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
(01-18-2019, 09:33 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: My cousins wife came home and found her father-in-law had shot himself in the head.  The scene was horrific.  She was in therapy for a couple of years.  They finally had to move to another house because the memories in that house were too horrible.    One time I was listening to a podcast of the worst jobs people do.  Cleaning up after a  gun to the head at close range was one of the worst.  Brain matter is everywhere.   Sometimes the drywall has to be replaced. The smell is hard to remove.  If I recall correctly, gun shot suicide clean up had a very high job turnover rate.   Just lettin ya know, Chas.

In Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, did it like this (he was a police chief, the boys are the cops)

[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#75

Euthanasia: a good and gentle death
"A terminally ill man who is due to die on Thursday morning in Switzerland has said his final weeks have been marred by police inquiries into his wife’s involvement in his plans.

Geoffrey Whaley, 80, from Chalfont St Peter in Buckinghamshire, had arranged plans to end his life at the Dignitas facility on Thursday after he was diagnosed with motor neurone disease in 2016.

In the final weeks of his life, he and his wife Ann, 76, were investigated by Thames Valley police following an anonymous phone call made to social services alerting them of the couple’s intentions to travel to Dignitas."


If there were hell, there would be a special place in it for someone this vile and low.

Show ContentSpoiler:

And another one.


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“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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