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(08-14-2019, 02:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Did you have a particular "anti-philosophy junkie" in mind? I didn't realize they were such an infestation around here that disclaimers were necessary and such. Who are these cretins who have you so worried?

A lot of people are anti-philosophical. It's not like it's any person or persons in particular. When I deem them to be cretinous it's just my opinion because, to me, it's similar to being anti-intellectual or, ultimately, just a step up from kids at school that are against learning because it's uncool.

EDIT: I actually quoted and responded to this post before I realized the post had been edited. Hence the more direct answer below.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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(08-14-2019, 02:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Did you have a particular "anti-philosophy junkie" in mind?

No.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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(08-14-2019, 02:44 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: When I deem them to be cretinous it's just my opinion because, to me, it's similar to being anti-intellectual or, ultimately, just a step up from kids at school that are against learning because it's uncool.

At least I know where I stand with you, then.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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(08-14-2019, 02:47 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote:
(08-14-2019, 02:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Did you have a particular "anti-philosophy junkie" in mind?

No.

(08-14-2019, 04:02 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: At least I know where I stand with you, then.

Dunno
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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"That it will never come again is what makes life so sweet." (Emily Dickinson)  Consider
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“When truth is replaced by silence,the silence is a lie.”
― Yevgeny Yevtushenko
Why does the porridge bird lays his eggs in the air?

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"The Christian resolve to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad." (Friedrich Nietzsche)  Consider
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[Image: 67370695_2050641171897468_37250579064212...e=5DD34664]
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"A friend is a person with whom I may be sincere. Before him, I may think aloud." (Ralph Waldo Emerson)  Consider
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(08-15-2019, 11:02 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote: "That it will never come again is what makes life so sweet." (Emily Dickinson)  Consider
:  


 Gee, I never knew Emily Dickinson was such a stupid cunt. 

From the same school of idiocy which declares "T'is better to have  loved and lost ,than never to have loved at all"
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(08-26-2019, 06:25 AM)grympy Wrote:
(08-15-2019, 11:02 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote: "That it will never come again is what makes life so sweet." (Emily Dickinson)  Consider
:  


Gee, I never knew Emily Dickinson was such a stupid cunt. 

From the same school of idiocy which declares "T'is better to have  loved and lost ,than never to have loved at all"

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()0))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


"A friend is a person who will help you move . A good friend is one  who will help you move a body"  (Alexei Sayle)


"A friend is a person who knows you really well but likes you anyway"  (anon)
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(08-25-2019, 12:28 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote: "A friend is a person with whom I may be sincere. Before him, I may think aloud." (Ralph Waldo Emerson)  Consider

"Love demands infinitely less than friendship."

(08-26-2019, 06:25 AM)grympy Wrote:
(08-15-2019, 11:02 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote: "That it will never come again is what makes life so sweet." (Emily Dickinson)  Consider
:  
Gee, I never knew Emily Dickinson was such a stupid cunt. 

From the same school of idiocy which declares "T'is better to have  loved and lost ,than never to have loved at all"

Was my first thought (though with less cunts and better-to-have-loveds Big Grin), but I think "it" might refer to life itself?
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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(08-26-2019, 06:29 AM)grympy Wrote: "A friend is a person who will help you move . A good friend is one  who will help you move a body"  (Alexei Sayle)

A friend is someone who will bail you out of jail. A good friend will be sitting next to you say, "Damn, that sure was fun."
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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(08-26-2019, 06:25 AM)grympy Wrote:
(08-15-2019, 11:02 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote: "That it will never come again is what makes life so sweet." (Emily Dickinson)  Consider
:  


 Gee, I never knew Emily Dickinson was such a stupid cunt. 

From the same school of idiocy which declares "T'is better to have  loved and lost ,than never to have loved at all"

Well, I guess you can put me down as a member of her school of idiocy.  Whatcanisay

I guess that a finite life is sweet enough for this gang of idiots too:

“The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there is little good evidence. Far better, it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful for every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” (Carl Sagan)

"I have no faith, only a suitcase of beliefs that sustain me. Life's meaning has always eluded me and I guess always will. But I love it just the same." (E.B. White)

"For atheists, everything in the world is enough and every day is holy. Every day is an atheist's holiday. It's a day that we're alive." (Penn Jillette)

"For man the vast marvel is to be alive. For man as for flower and beast and bird, the supreme triumph is to be most vividly, most perfectly alive. Whatever the unborn and dead may know, the cannot know the beauty, the marvel of being alive in the flesh. The dead may look after the afterwards. But the magnificent here and now of life in the flesh is ours alone, and ours for only a time. We ought to dance with rapture and we should be alive and in the flesh and part of the living incarnate cosmos." (D.H. Lawrence)

"I prefer ...the laughers, materialists, radicals, cynics, hedonists, atheists, sensualists, voluptuaries. They know that there is only one world, and the promotion of an afterlife deprives us of the enjoyment and benefit of the only one there is." (Michel Onfray)

"I've learned what I can control is whether I am going to live a day in fear and depression and panic, or whether I am going to attack the day and make it feel as good a day, as wonderful a day, as I can." (Gilda Radner)

We are here for just a spell and then pass on. So get a few laughs and do the best you can. Live your live so that whenever you lose it, you are ahead." (Will Rogers)

“I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.” (Etienne De Grellet)

"Life, if well used, is long enough." (Seneca)

"Do not try to live forever. You will not succeed." (George Bernard Shaw)  Consider
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That's right. The period at the end of the sentence helps to provide it meaning.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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Well, there's a difference between the romantic optimist and the cynical pessimist .


Pessimism is a very logical position to hold ; one always expects the worst, and is often pleasantly surprised when that doesn't occur.

Another crock is "that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger ". There is nothing noble about suffering. Often ,suffering doesn't kill a person, but it crushes them. Never more so than with the repeated loss of love. How many times is enough?


"The problem with life is that at it ends" Franz Kafka

I blinked and discovered I am an old man. I appreciate all that I have ,and savour every day. I take life as something wonderful , where one can experience great joy or great suffering. Life is indifferent, but that doesn't mean I have to be.

I do not resile from my previous post.. .
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(08-26-2019, 11:23 PM)grympy Wrote: Well, there's  a difference between the romantic optimist and the cynical pessimist .


Pessimism is a very logical position to hold ; one always expects the worst, and is often pleasantly  surprised  when that doesn't occur. 

Wouldn't the logical position to hold be realism; one should always expects what is most likely to occur. 

Pessimism is too filled with anxiety and pleasure denial and optimism too filled with delusions and disapointments.
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(08-27-2019, 07:26 AM)epronovost Wrote:
(08-26-2019, 11:23 PM)grympy Wrote: Well, there's  a difference between the romantic optimist and the cynical pessimist .


Pessimism is a very logical position to hold ; one always expects the worst, and is often pleasantly  surprised  when that doesn't occur. 

Wouldn't the logical position to hold be realism; one should always expects what is most likely to occur. 

Pessimism is too filled with anxiety and pleasure denial and optimism too filled with delusions and disapointments.

 It was realism which lead to pessimism . I remain a realist, as well as sceptic and cynic.  As strong beliefs tend to be (according to Jung)  my position is the result of direct experience.

The same experience/type of experience  can leave different people with different perceptions. Is the optimist  a  romantic fool because  he she has a positive perception of experiences and of life?  Or is the cynic./skeptic/  pessimist simply bitter and twisted?    I think both can be true, but are not necessarily true.

A cynic and skeptic can I think still be optimistic.  

I'm also convinced that reality can't be fully discerned through perception. Yet our personal notions about reality, what a makes us the person we are,  are the results of our life experiences. I assert that pessimism as every bit as rational a position as optimism. That  both positions are valid.  Consider . 

I may be wrong , but have yet to see any proof to the contrary, only some  claims . I have provided an argument, but no proof.  I'm only stating my  position,  not trying to convince anyone
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(08-27-2019, 10:46 PM)grympy Wrote: I assert that pessimism as every bit as rational a position as optimism. That  both positions are valid. 

Optimism: The glass is half full.

Pessimism: The glass is half empty.

Realism: The glass is both half full and half empty.
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(08-28-2019, 12:22 AM)Alan V Wrote:
(08-27-2019, 10:46 PM)grympy Wrote: I assert that pessimism as every bit as rational a position as optimism. That  both positions are valid. 

Optimism: The glass is half full.

Pessimism: The glass is half empty.

Realism: The glass is both half full and half empty.

The engineer says the glass is too big.
- Dilbert
Why does the porridge bird lays his eggs in the air?

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(08-26-2019, 11:23 PM)grympy Wrote: Another crock is "that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger ".  There is nothing noble about suffering.   Often ,suffering doesn't kill a person, but it crushes them. Never more so than with the repeated  loss of love.  How many times is enough? 

While Scott Adams seems to be descending into madness of late, I've always liked his take on this, voiced by Dilbert:

"That which does not kill me makes me angry and weak."

That's the truth of the matter. As you point out, suffering always diminishes the sufferer.

That does not mean of course that we can't "transcend" suffering in various ways; it's just that it requires a nonzero energy expenditure and at some point you wake up to find yourself not just old and tired, but tired of being old.
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(08-26-2019, 11:23 PM)grympy Wrote: Another crock is "that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger ".  There is nothing noble about suffering.   Often ,suffering doesn't kill a person, but it crushes them. Never more so than with the repeated  loss of love.  How many times is enough? 

My bone disease is not fatal, but it certainly weakens me. What doesn't kill you can still weaken you.
"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" -- Frank Herbert
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(09-03-2019, 02:01 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: [Image: 69113347_535349290538434_125220214755504...e=5DCE3494]

 For some of us, it took no courage at all. Thumbs Up
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Never operate on a hypothesis when it comes to the so-called existence of the supernatural, for that is a dangerous way of thinking and sets up a precedent for being in favor of that which is unreasonable.
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