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Favorite Deep Quotes
#51

Favorite Deep Quotes
(01-06-2019, 09:51 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 05:22 PM)Tres Leches Wrote:
(01-06-2019, 02:13 PM)Gwaithmir Wrote: I can think of a few Catholic nuns I wish that applied to. Dodgy

If you're talking about Catholic school, they've probably already floated by. Maybe you were distracted and didn't get the pleasure of witnessing it. Wink

-Teresa

Well, actually a couple that I did know "floated" by. During the early 1980's I found the obituary for the Sister Superior of my school in the local paper. I don't know what her problem was, but she systematically insulted every student she spoke to. I showed it to a friend and we were both so elated that we danced a jig around his apartment. About 15 years ago I spotted the obituary of the nun who taught history when I was a senior in high school. She was a humorless bitch and had the disagreeable habit of jabbing a finger (hard) into students whenever she asked a question. She was only in her early 60's when she died, which sweetened the news for me. Chuckle

Yeah, I endured a few nasty Catholic nuns in grades K - 12. Sister Mary Eugenia was a particularly bad one. I've no idea what happened to her. Ironically, my favorite teacher was Sister Rosemary, my 9th grade math teacher. She loved math and was the only teacher who never acted like girls aren't good at or should avoid math. Not sure what happened to her either though.

-Teresa
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#52

Favorite Deep Quotes
"Things are more like they are now, than they have ever been before."

-- prob. Cayce Moore, though often ascribed to Dwight D. Eisenhower
" I have nothing to say and I am saying it and that is poetry. "
                                                                                 -- John Cage
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#53

Favorite Deep Quotes
"We shall have peace! We shall have peace when you answer for the burning of the Westfold, and the women and children who lie dead there! We shall have peace when the soldiers whose bodies were hewn even as they lay dead at gates of the Hornberg are avenged! When you swing from a gibbet for the amusement of your own crows──then we shall have peace!" (King Théoden to Saruman after the fall of Isengard)
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#54

Favorite Deep Quotes
One for today.

[Image: dcfrcsy-e461df6b-4a43-4aa1-a72c-d6a832909e59.jpg]
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#55

Favorite Deep Quotes
“Faith is often the boast of a man who is too lazy to investigate.” (F.M. Knowles) Consider
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#56

Favorite Deep Quotes
"Oh well."
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#57

Favorite Deep Quotes
"He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed."
Proverbs 13:20

Which supposedly inspired the saying that, "We are the company that we keep."
[Image: ad_signature.jpg]
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#58

Favorite Deep Quotes
“Soldiers fight and die to advance the wealth and luxury of the great, and they are called masters of the world without having a clod of earth to call their own.” (Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus) Consider
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#59

Favorite Deep Quotes
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mancken
<Insert intelligent thought here>
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#60

Favorite Deep Quotes
“To convince someone of the truth, it is not enough to state it, but rather one must find the path from error to truth.”
— Ludwig Wittgenstein

[Image: Wittgenstein-1.jpg]

Quote:Logical Atomism, theory, developed primarily by the British logician Bertrand Russell and the Austrian-born philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein, proposing that language, like other phenomena, can be analyzed in terms of aggregates of fixed, irreducible units or elements. Logical Atomism supposes that a perfect one-to-one correspondence exists between an “atom” of language (an atomic proposition) and an atomic fact; thus, for each atomic fact there is a corresponding atomic proposition. An atomic proposition is one that asserts that a certain thing has a certain quality (e.g.: “This is red.”). An atomic fact is the simplest kind of fact and consists in the possession of a quality by some specific, individual thing. Therefore, on the assumption that language mirrors reality, it can be proposed that the world is composed of facts that are utterly simple and comprehensible.

Through mathematical logic laid down in Principia Mathematica (1910–13; with Alfred North Whitehead), Russell sought to show that philosophical arguments could be solved in much the same way mathematical problems are solved. He rejected Hegel’s monism, maintaining that it led to a denial of relations between things. For Russell, atomic propositions are the building blocks from which, using logical connectives, the more complex molecular propositions are constructed.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#61

Favorite Deep Quotes
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” (James Madison) Consider
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#62

Favorite Deep Quotes
Quote:Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Quote:Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

Hermann Göring to the psychologist Gustave Gilbert during the tribunal of Nuremberg. I had to think a lot of these quotes whenever Bush started a new war. True words by a master of cynicism.
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#63

Favorite Deep Quotes
This is sometimes my signature:

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”


― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
"Talk nonsense, but talk your own nonsense, and I'll kiss you for it. To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's. 
F. D.
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#64

Favorite Deep Quotes
(01-26-2019, 01:05 PM)abaris Wrote:
Quote:Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Quote:Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

Hermann Göring to the psychologist Gustave Gilbert during the tribunal of Nuremberg. I had to think a lot of these quotes whenever Bush started a new war. True words by a master of cynicism.

Wonderful quotes.

Those in power abuse that. Those in power use things like hatred, bigotry and nationalism to stir people up into a frenzy and paint the pacifists out to be "cowards".

Ironically ... standing up against the violent in a non-violent manner, identifying as a pacifist, and supporting pacifism in the face of those who call pacifists cowards ... is the bravest thing a person can do. Look at people like Gandi ... he was no coward (he certainly had his flaws and isn't quite the saint he is painted to be ... but he was certainly no coward).

Killing people and being patriotic is not brave ... it's reckless and idiotic. You don't need weapons or brute force to fight courageously.

The pacifists are right ... it's just that nobody listens to them because the world is shitty and full of bad people.

On that note ... here's my deep quote:

"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again."
—Andre Gide
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#65

Favorite Deep Quotes
(01-26-2019, 01:25 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: Those in power abuse that. Those in power use things like hatred, bigotry and nationalism to stir people up into a frenzy and paint the pacifists out to be "cowards".

Ironically ... standing up against the violent in a non-violent manner, identifying as a pacifist, and supporting pacifism in the face of those who call pacifists cowards ... is the bravest thing a person can do. Look at people like Gandi ... he was no coward (he certainly had his flaws and isn't quite the saint he is painted to be ... but he was certainly no coward).

Killing people and being patriotic is not brave ... it's reckless and idiotic. You don't need weapons or brute force to fight courageously.

The pacifists are right ... it's just that nobody listens to them because the world is shitty and full of bad people.

On that note ... here's my deep quote:

"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again."
—Andre Gide

Sorry, but if the world is full of bad people, as you say, then force against them is obviously required.  If you really think pacifism is better, you have to think people are better.

For instance, any political policy whatsoever has downsides as well as upsides.  You can't say people in power are abusing it if they are quite aware of this unhappy fact and are doing as much as possible to mitigate it.  They are just doing what they can for important goals.  What you should have said is that some people in power abuse it.

Also, the reasons we have to keep repeating the lessons we have learned are A) repetition is necessary for learning, B) it takes people time to absorb such lessons, C) they absorb them at different rates depending on what they have already been taught, and D) there are always new people to teach.

"Nobody listens" is painting everyone with the same brush, and is a cheap way to feel superior.
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#66

Favorite Deep Quotes
Pacifism is better.

Hurting bad people is still hurting people. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Even war out of self-defense is only good because it's healthy and functional to be selfish. Sometimes the moral thing to do is both dysfunctional and unhealthy. When you hurt your enemy you're not doing something good if it doesn't actually decrease harm but instead increases it.

Pacifism is unrealistic and idealistic ... but it's better because it really is the most moral position to take.

If someone attacked me I would be too weak to resist defending myself and I would defend myself for purely selfish and instinctual reasons ... but it wouldn't mean I'd done the right thing. If someone attacks me I should only attack them back if by doing so I prevent them from hurting me or themselves, or anybody else, even more than I hurt them when I respond.

I'm not an absolute pacifist when it comes to something like defense from domestic violence, therefore. But on the scale of war ... literally any form of defense is going to be something so harmful that it's not really about neutralizing ... in the context of war "neutralize" is just a euphemism for something morally unjustifiable.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#67

Favorite Deep Quotes
(01-26-2019, 03:46 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: Pacifism is better.

Hurting bad people is still hurting people. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Even war out of self-defense is only good because it's healthy and functional to be selfish. Sometimes the moral thing to do is both dysfunctional and unhealthy. When you hurt your enemy you're not doing something good if it doesn't actually decrease harm but instead increases it.

Pacifism is unrealistic and idealistic ... but it's better because it really is the most moral position to take.

If someone attacked me I would be too weak to resist defending myself and I would defend myself for purely selfish and instinctual reasons ... but it wouldn't mean I'd done the right thing. If someone attacks me I should only attack them back if by doing so I prevent them from hurting me or themselves, or anybody else, even more than I hurt them when I respond.

I'm not an absolute pacifist when it comes to something like defense from domestic violence, therefore. But on the scale of war ... literally any form of defense is going to be something so harmful that it's not really about neutralizing ... in the context of war "neutralize" is just a euphemism.

You do have a way of repeating "I'm right because I'm right."  You seem to think you can merely will something to be the way you want. 

Did you pick up that mind-game from Schopenhauer?
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#68

Favorite Deep Quotes
(01-26-2019, 03:52 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:
(01-26-2019, 03:46 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: Pacifism is better.

Hurting bad people is still hurting people. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Even war out of self-defense is only good because it's healthy and functional to be selfish. Sometimes the moral thing to do is both dysfunctional and unhealthy. When you hurt your enemy you're not doing something good if it doesn't actually decrease harm but instead increases it.

Pacifism is unrealistic and idealistic ... but it's better because it really is the most moral position to take.

If someone attacked me I would be too weak to resist defending myself and I would defend myself for purely selfish and instinctual reasons ... but it wouldn't mean I'd done the right thing. If someone attacks me I should only attack them back if by doing so I prevent them from hurting me or themselves, or anybody else, even more than I hurt them when I respond.

I'm not an absolute pacifist when it comes to something like defense from domestic violence, therefore. But on the scale of war ... literally any form of defense is going to be something so harmful that it's not really about neutralizing ... in the context of war "neutralize" is just a euphemism.

You do have a way of repeating "I'm right because I'm right."  You seem to think you can merely will something to be the way you want. 

Did you pick up that mind-game from Schopenhauer?

I didn't say "I'm right because I'm right."

I gave you my viewpoints are you ignored them and focussed on the person instead of on the person's viewpoint.

What I picked up from Schopenhauer is to be even less irrational, unlike yourself.


You're looking for a fight with me across multiple threads now.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#69

Favorite Deep Quotes
(01-26-2019, 03:52 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote: You seem to think you can merely will something to be the way you want. 

I neither think that nor seem to think that (your own misperception of me excluded).

You're actually the one who is a big fan of the will ...

I don't will shite.
My Argument Against Free Will Wrote:(1) Ultimately, to control your actions you have to originate your original nature.

(2) But you can't originate your original nature—it's already there.

(3) So, ultimately, you can't control your actions.
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#70

Favorite Deep Quotes
Saw this in a historical museum today (in Portuguese):

The past does not acknowledge its place: it is always present.

I like it... Undecided
“We drift down time, clutching at straws. But what good's a brick to a drowning man?” 
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#71

Favorite Deep Quotes
"There seem to be two kinds of searchers: those who seek to make their ego something other than it is, holy, happy, unselfish (as though you could make a fish unfish), and those who understand that all such attempts are just gesticulation and play-acting, that there is only one thing that can be done, which is to dis-identify themselves with the ego, by realizing its unreality, and by becoming aware of their eternal identity with pure being." - Wei Wu Wei
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#72

Favorite Deep Quotes
“An atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads man back to nature, to experience and to reason.” (Baron d'Holbach) Consider
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#73

Favorite Deep Quotes
(01-26-2019, 03:52 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:
(01-26-2019, 03:46 PM)EvieTheAvocado Wrote: Pacifism is better.

Hurting bad people is still hurting people. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Even war out of self-defense is only good because it's healthy and functional to be selfish. Sometimes the moral thing to do is both dysfunctional and unhealthy. When you hurt your enemy you're not doing something good if it doesn't actually decrease harm but instead increases it.

Pacifism is unrealistic and idealistic ... but it's better because it really is the most moral position to take.

If someone attacked me I would be too weak to resist defending myself and I would defend myself for purely selfish and instinctual reasons ... but it wouldn't mean I'd done the right thing. If someone attacks me I should only attack them back if by doing so I prevent them from hurting me or themselves, or anybody else, even more than I hurt them when I respond.

I'm not an absolute pacifist when it comes to something like defense from domestic violence, therefore. But on the scale of war ... literally any form of defense is going to be something so harmful that it's not really about neutralizing ... in the context of war "neutralize" is just a euphemism.

You do have a way of repeating "I'm right because I'm right."  You seem to think you can merely will something to be the way you want. 

Did you pick up that mind-game from Schopenhauer?

I was under the impression Schopenhauer was a pretty depressed dude, and believed existence to be completely in vain and futile. Doesn't sound like the type of guy who'd believe we can will something to be the way we want, but then again I've only read his essay "On the Vanity of Existence" (it's a great essay and I believe everyone should read it for a good intellectual challenge).
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#74

Favorite Deep Quotes
"Men fear time. Time fears the Pyramids." (Ancient Egyptian Proverb) Consider
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#75

Favorite Deep Quotes
"A child-like man is not a man whose development has been arrested. On the contrary, he is a man who has given himself a chance of continuing to develop long after most adults have muffled themselves in the cocoon of middle aged habit and convention." - Aldous Huxley

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe 

"Don't bend; don't water it down; don't try to make it logical; don't edit your own soul according to the fashion. Rather, follow your most intense obsessions mercilessly." - Franz Kafka 
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