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Climate Change

Climate Change
(08-23-2019, 11:41 PM)SYZ Wrote:
(08-23-2019, 12:07 AM)grympy Wrote: I've noticed  in recent years, that our Summers seem to be getting hotter...

Oh yes, I'd agree totally with this.  I'd also say our winters are getting milder too, as it
was common when I was a kid to see puddles frozen over in mid-winter where I lived in
suburban Melbourne.  And I easily recall snapping(!) a garden hose which was frozen solid,
when I attempted to wash the frost off my car windscreen in the mid-1960s.  We seldom,
if ever, get a true frost now.

Having said that though, Melbourne's previously hottest summer day on record was 117°F
(47°C) on 6th February 1851, known as "Black Thursday", and reported in The Argus of 17 Jan 1857.

And this image is of the Murray River's dry bed in 1915, which I believe was a one-off event:

[Image: 10%20River%20Murray%20Koondrook%201915%2...0&mode=max]


But this image is a forewarning of similar things yet to come; the dry bed of the Darling River in 2017.
[Image: 7442152-3x2-700x467.jpg]

—We've been warned have we not?


Thanks for that.

Threw up a memory of my own. ca 1956. We went camping on the  Murray, which was in flood. I can still  remember seeing the roof of a house in the middle of the river. I was 8. Put me off camping for life  .My loathing of camping was topped off by being on exercise in the army, once for a month .Malaysia, primary jungle, very little undergrowth , but hot and wet , raining most days.  Bloody horrible . Made an interesting discovery. When you are being rained on, and soaked, the last thing which gets wet is one's scrotum.

Have also flown over a Lake Eyre in Flood.  Bloody amazing.Huge ,but  only about 1 metre deep. 

Yeah, we've been warned, for at least 40 years. I became aware of global warming in the early 80's. Have thought "we're fucked"  from the time our then   Prime Minister,, John Howard (and most PM's since ) gave a political/economic response  to an environmental  issue  . 

  Even today, even though  most politicians everywhere (not all)   recognise climate change, few take anything more than token measures to address the issue .

Yeah, I think we're  fucked, . I'm especially livid at the realisation  that  contrary to previous belief, I will probably live long enough to be personally inconvenienced by climate  change . My city under 3 feet of water, my house  at the bottom of the hill due to flooding, that kind of thing. No? Well that's all right then.   Thumbs Up
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Climate Change
(08-23-2019, 11:44 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: https://earther.gizmodo.com/david-koch-e...1837505612

With regards to the recent death of David Koch...

Quote: Greenpeace estimates the brothers spent $127 million from 1997 to 2017 funding 92 organizations that muddied the waters on climate change, a move that helped make international efforts to combat climate change, like the Kyoto Protocol, worthless. They funded a network of overlapping climate denial organizations to kill a 2009 bill that would have created a cap and trade system, a very business-friendly climate solution they rejected on principle.

Yes, the Koch brothers were evil.  They were the primary reason Republicans embraced denialism.
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Climate Change
On top of the Amazon situation...

https://thenarwhal.ca/canadas-forgotten-rainforest/

Quote:Following decades of industrial logging, much of what remains of B.C.’s undisturbed and unprotected inland rainforest is now at risk of being clear-cut — including the few unlogged inland rainforest watersheds between Prince George and the U.S. border, 800 kilometres to the south.

Years of salvage logging for the mountain pine beetle in B.C.’s interior are drawing to a close and timber companies, permits in hand from the provincial government, are moving into the ancient rainforest’s hemlock and spruce stands to feed interior mills running out of wood.

Without a rapid change in B.C. government policy, old-growth hemlock and spruce will be milled into two by-four and two by-six planks, and wood waste will be ground into pellets and shipped overseas.

Cedars that were seedlings 1,600 years ago, when Mayan civilization flourished in cities in the tropical jungle, will wind up as fence posts, shakes and garden mulch, or burned in huge slash piles that line logging roads like a giant’s game of pick-up sticks, adding to B.C.’s uncounted forestry emissions.


Quote: Clear-cut logging in B.C.’s inland temperate rainforest, found in valley bottoms that are part of a much larger ecosystem called the interior wet belt, is taking place at a rate “if not faster, then comparable to what we’re seeing in the tropical rainforest of Brazil,” says DellaSala, who carries binoculars and a professional camera.

And that’s just unacceptable,” he tells The Narwhal. “We can get our timber needs met in a lot of other places. We shouldn’t be going into our last primary and intact forest landscapes … We just have so little of this left on the planet.”

Quote:According to a peer-reviewed article by Australian scientists, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, temperate rainforests store twice as much carbon per hectare as the most carbon-dense tropical rainforests.

DellaSala says B.C., which is legally committed to slashing carbon emissions, is sitting on a world-class carbon sink.

“This is not being recognized as a potential carbon sanctuary,” says the scientist, whose PhD focused on forest fragmentation. “We’re missing an opportunity to slow down the pace and velocity of climate change by squandering this resource.”
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Climate Change
https://www.euronews.com/2019/08/22/boli...00-000-hec

Quote:Bolivian authorities warned this week that 70% of the department of Santa Cruz — where more than a quarter of the country's population lives — is under "extreme risk" from forest fires.
According to the government, nearly 500,000 hectares of forest have now been turned into ashes.

President Evo Morales announced on Wednesday that a new environmental emergency cabinet had been created to tackle the blazes in the Chiquitania area which borders with Brazil and Paraguay.

The three Latin American countries have been battling raging wildfires in the Amazon rainforest.

According to Brazil’s space research centre (INPE), 72,843 fires have hit the country's side of the Amazon — an 83% increase on last year and the highest number registered since records began in 2013. The smokes from the wildfires on Wednesday caused an hour-long blackout in Sao Paulo, located 2,700 kms away.

Morales also announced that the government had hired a Boeing 747 Supertanker. The plane which can carry up to 70,400 litres of water is the largest aerial firefighting aircraft in the world.
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Climate Change
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Climate Change
Yes, we are already too late to prevent 1.5C of warming and some terrible disasters and human suffering which result from it. But no, we are not too late (yet) to stop 2C of warming and even more catastrophic results.
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Climate Change
(08-25-2019, 09:56 AM)Alan V Wrote: Yes, we are already too late to prevent 1.5C of warming and some terrible disasters and human suffering which result from it.  But no, we are not too late (yet) to stop 2C of warming and even more catastrophic results.


Don't know if that's true.Would need to see some evidence.

Kind of irrelevant I think, in any case. Politicians world wide still seem to see climate change as a political problem, and  approach it as such. Sadly, I'm not all a confident that enough politicians will take enough action to make a difference. It truly hope I'm wrong .

EG :A recent pacific nations forum attended  by Australian Prime Minister,  Scott Morrison . Good old Scott is a born againie, so his  response to a range of crises is to pray. I shit you not.  See below: 

)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))_)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

"MELBOURNE (Reuters) – Fiji Prime Minister Frank Bainimarama accused Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison of insulting leaders of Pacific island nations during a regional summit earlier this week, and said Chinese officials were far more tactful and better mannered.

FILE PHOTO: Australia’s Prime Minister Scott Morrison speaks at the Istana in Singapore, June 7, 2019. REUTERS/Feline Lim/File Photo

The Fijian prime minister’s comments come after the Pacific Islands Forum failed to agree on tough new climate change commitments at the insistence of the pro-coal Australian government, upsetting leaders of island nations at risk from rising sea levels. "


https://factsbehindnews.com/2019/08/17/f...d-nations/
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Climate Change
(08-25-2019, 11:45 PM)grympy Wrote:
(08-25-2019, 09:56 AM)Alan V Wrote: Yes, we are already too late to prevent 1.5C of warming and some terrible disasters and human suffering which result from it.  But no, we are not too late (yet) to stop 2C of warming and even more catastrophic results.

Don't know if that's true. Would need to see some evidence.

For which assertion?  That we missed 1.5C or can still prevent 2C?

If it's about missing 1.5C:

The earth is out of energy balance. In other words, even if we stopped all emissions of greenhouse gases today, the planet would continue to warm for decades. This is because of the thermal inertia of the oceans, which take time to warm up even as they absorb huge amounts of heat from global warming. Oceans show less heating than land at the surface, but absorb much more. Some estimates of the lag time are between 20 and 30 years, which means the warmth that present amounts of greenhouse gases can capture won’t be reflected in actual temperatures for another 2 or 3 decades, and perhaps longer.

So although the earth has warmed 1C (1.8F) above the preindustrial average temperature, as much as another 0.5C (0.9F) of warming is probably already unavoidable without actively reducing the present concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. This means it’s already later than many people think.

If it's about preventing 2C:

At our present emissions rate, we will likely hit 2.0C (3.6F) above the preindustrial average by 2050, with even more warming locked in. By 2100, we could see around 5.0C (9.0F) above the preindustrial. However, it's important to note that with 30 years to go until 2050, we still have time to build up renewables to bring our carbon emissions down to a range where the ocean and biosphere can remove the excess. That would mean an 80% emissions drop from present or thereabouts. Even then, because of the delayed effect, we would still have to remove and sequester carbon from the atmosphere to prevent overshooting that mark. We have the technology to do this, but we have to scale it up.

Although it would be difficult, it is still possible.
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Climate Change
(08-26-2019, 12:15 AM)Alan V Wrote:
(08-25-2019, 11:45 PM)grympy Wrote:
(08-25-2019, 09:56 AM)Alan V Wrote: Yes, we are already too late to prevent 1.5C of warming and some terrible disasters and human suffering which result from it.  But no, we are not too late (yet) to stop 2C of warming and even more catastrophic results.

Don't know if that's true. Would need to see some evidence.

For which assertion?  That we missed 1.5C or can still prevent 2C?

If it's about missing 1.5C:

The earth is out of energy balance. In other words, even if we stopped all emissions of greenhouse gases today, the planet would continue to warm for decades. This is because of the thermal inertia of the oceans, which take time to warm up even as they absorb huge amounts of heat from global warming. Oceans show less heating than land at the surface, but absorb much more. Some estimates of the lag time are between 20 and 30 years, which means the warmth that present amounts of greenhouse gases can capture won’t be reflected in actual temperatures for another 2 or 3 decades, and perhaps longer.

So although the earth has warmed 1C (1.8F) above the preindustrial average temperature, as much as another 0.5C (0.9F) of warming is probably already unavoidable without actively reducing the present concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. This means it’s already later than many people think.

If it's about preventing 2C:

At our present emissions rate, we will likely hit 2.0C (3.6F) above the preindustrial average by 2050, with even more warming locked in. By 2100, we could see around 5.0C (9.0F) above the preindustrial.   However, it's important to note that with 30 years to go until 2050, we still have time to build up renewables to bring our carbon emissions down to a range where the ocean and biosphere can remove the excess.  That would mean an 80% emissions drop from present or thereabouts.  Even then, because of the delayed effect, we would still have to remove and sequester carbon from the atmosphere to prevent overshooting that mark.  We have the technology to do this, but we have to scale it up.

Although it would be difficult, it is still possible.

Preventing the 2 degrees. I can follow your claims , but would  like to know the source of those claims.
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Climate Change
(08-26-2019, 12:28 AM)grympy Wrote: Preventing the 2 degrees. I can follow your claims , but would  like to know the source of those claims.

My original 50-page paper had over 700 references from over 50 books and a lot of different internet articles on the scientific research.  So it would take time to dig out the references, if you are really interested to know.
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Climate Change
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-49471644


Quote: Over a period of two days last week Angola had roughly three times more fires than Brazil, according to data Bloomberg news agency obtained from Weather Source.

The data said there were 6,902 fires in Angola and 3,395 fires in neighbouring Democratic Republic of Congo, compared with just 2,127 fires in Brazil.
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Climate Change
NASA Images Show Just How Much Carbon Monoxide Is Coming Off The Burning Amazon

https://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-images...ing-amazon

Quote:A NASA satellite captured harrowing images of carbon monoxide in the atmosphere due to the wildfires that continue to rage in the Amazon rainforest.

NASA collected new data from their Atmospheric Infrared Sounder (AIRS) instrument, measuring levels of carbon monoxide at an altitude of 18,000 feet (5,500 meters) from August 8 to 22, according to a press release.
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Climate Change
"A study published in June suggested that the rate of permafrost thawing is progressing much faster than climate models projected. And scientists studying the link between global warming and European heat waves said those recent extremes are also outside the scope of what they expected at current levels of warming. The world will still exist if we breach 1.5°C and 2°C, but 'the climate impacts and risks will be higher and the temperature will be higher,' said Glen Peters, research director at the CICERO climate research center in Oslo. That all seems to be sinking in to public awareness, he said."

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/27082...qzOGQGuXsg

The article also outlines the likely impossible measures it would now take to stay below 1.5C of total warming.
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Climate Change
"All 10 candidates participating in CNN’s climate change town hall Wednesday, including former Vice President Joe Biden and Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), have proposed halting new leases to tap into energy deposits on millions of acres [of federal land] both onshore and off the coasts, a sign that the party has adopted the position of green groups that long pushed to keep fossil fuels in the ground."

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/0...ge-1705031
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Climate Change
First Dog on the Moon is Australia's only award-winning marsupial-based cartoonist...

Brenda the Civil Disobedience Penguin asks: what will you give up to save the planet?
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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Climate Change
(09-05-2019, 05:12 PM)SYZ Wrote: First Dog on the Moon is Australia's only award-winning marsupial-based cartoonist...

Brenda the Civil Disobedience Penguin asks: what will you give up to save the planet?

Yes, capitalism (and over-population) got us into this problem with climate change, but harnessing the power of capitalism can get us out again if what are now externalities are figured into the costs of of purchases, to reflect their true costs.  That's best accomplished with a carbon tax which increases over time, with tax rebates for those consumers who are hurt the most. That will help phase out fossil fuels while giving people the time they need to create renewable replacements.

Meanwhile, making personal sacrifices will help us until renewable alternatives are available -- avoiding having children, air travel, eating so much meat, and so on.

Remember, we have a world population of 7.7 billion who depend for their livelihoods on present economic systems.  If the major reason we are fighting climate change is to help future humans, many of whom are not born yet, we can hardly expect anyone to abandon those who are already alive through trying to institute draconian measures.  Plus that would be self-defeating politically.

This is why dealing with climate change is a very difficult problem.
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Climate Change
"By 2023, the U.S. Energy Information Administration estimates the average cost of producing a megawatt hour of electricity will be $40.20 for a large-scale natural gas plants. Solar installations will be $2.60 cheaper and wind turbines will be $3.60 cheaper. "

Yet we are continuing to build gas-fired plants.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019...vuK62gogsI
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Climate Change
(09-09-2019, 02:40 PM)Alan V Wrote: "By 2023, the U.S. Energy Information Administration estimates the average cost of producing a megawatt hour of electricity will be $40.20 for a large-scale natural gas plants. Solar installations will be $2.60 cheaper and wind turbines will be $3.60 cheaper. "

Yet we are continuing to build gas fired plants.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019...vuK62gogsI

Because they're "cleaner than coal."

I shit you not, I once saw an article from some #energystrong asshole claiming we've already had the "green revolution" we need in natural gas. Aggravated
[Image: Bastard-Signature.jpg]
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Climate Change
Bill Nye “the science guy” says in a video interview released Thursday that he is  
open to the idea of jailing those who deviate from the climate change consensus.

Nye’s comments come with a coalition of liberal attorneys general pursuing
companies that challenge the consensus of catastrophic climate change.


     Whistling
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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Climate Change
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/0...DOkTm8Ew9o

Quote:New climate models unveiled by French researchers Tuesday showed Earth's average temperature could rise a "terrifying" 6.5-7.0°C above pre-industrial levels by the end of the century if dramatic action is not immediately taken to slash carbon emissions.

The findings, presented at a press conference in Paris, suggest the planet may be warming significantly faster than scientists previously believed as the world's major economies continue to burn fossil fuels at unsustainable rates.
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Climate Change
(09-11-2019, 04:36 PM)SYZ Wrote: Bill Nye “the science guy” says in a video interview released Thursday that he is  
open to the idea of jailing those who deviate from the climate change consensus.

Nye’s comments come with a coalition of liberal attorneys general pursuing
companies that challenge the consensus of catastrophic climate change.


     Whistling

 Surely far cheaper to just shoot them?  Consider
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Climate Change
I recently saw a survey where most people said they were more concerned about the kinds of jobs their grandchildren could have than about climate change.  That led me to a few thoughts.

1.  How would they have any idea about the kinds of job available to their grandchildren?  My own grandparents died in the 70s.  Computers were huge machines kept in sterile environments and as IBM said around that time "maybe 3 or 4 could be useful".  The idea of the internet was so far beyond them. 

2.  I personally cannot begin to conceive what the world will be like socially or technologically 2 generations from now.  And I read futurist sci-fi!

3.  If we don't pay attention to climate change, we might not be here at all.  We humans demand more oxygen than any other animal.  What happens to us when there just isn't enough for our brains to function?  I would joke that the stuff doesn't grow on trees, but basically, it does. 

4.  We are getting better at growing more food on less property.  But an acre of trees produces a lot more oxygen than acre of corn does.

5.  Hypercanes.  As the oceans warm, we may have to create a "category 6".

6.  "THEY SAY" eat more fish.  There are fewer fish these days.  And apparently they are full of microplastics.  What's left?  Insects.  Looking forward to a McInsect Whopper?
I just believe in one less deity than most people.
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