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Climate Change

Climate Change
(06-22-2019, 08:44 AM)SYZ Wrote: Solar energy for individual Aussie homes is highly priced.

•   A 10.24 kWh Lithium-ion battery pack with a 10 kW steady output is around AU$7,500 to AU$10,000.

•   40 No 250W panels cost around AU$8,000 to AU$12,000.

•   40 Micro panel inverters cost around AU$2,000.

All up cost (depending on labour component?) could be AU$19,500.  (US$13,510)

Our annual cost for coal-fired power is approximately AU$1,700, so it'd take us around 11 years just to offset
the supply and install costs of solar—although that doesn't allow for power price variations, depreciation, varying
government subsidies, or inflation.  Which means that (in very simplistic terms) that we don't get "free" electricity
until 2030.  One problem is that in 10 to 15 years time,  both the PV panels and the battery may need replacing.
Some PV panels here have been known to fail after only 5 years—well short of their expected (or claimed) life
expectancy.

—I'd be interested to see how these prices compare with US prices, which I'm guessing would be a lot cheaper
due to supply and demand?

First of all, we don't need the battery pack.  We can hook our solar up to the grid so that if we are producing more electricity than we are using, we get paid for it, and if we are not producing enough, we draw from the grid.

Second, companies now offer solar installations on a pay-as-you-go basis, which means no up-front costs at all.  You just pay a monthly bill.

Third, assuming you are paying for it all up-front:

"So how much are your neighbors actually saving over 20 years as a result of installing a solar energy system? As you might expect, this depends on where you live – different cities and states have electricity costs charged by your local utility company, different amounts of sunshine, and different local rebates and incentives for going solar. For example, homeowners will save about $17,000 on average in Portland when they go solar. In Boston, homeowners will save about $43,000 on average, and in Los Angeles, homeowners can save a whopping $50,000 over 20 years."

"Your solar panel payback period will also depend on where you live. The average U.S. household can break even on their solar energy system in just over 7 years, but in many cities that number is even lower – Jersey City, Washington DC, and Boston all have payback periods of six years or less. In order to calculate your own customized instant savings estimate based on your roof and not just your city, try our solar savings and cost calculator."

https://news.energysage.com/how-much-doe...n-the-u-s/

Still, I don't expect there to be a big jump in solar installations until prices are significantly lower, just because of the inertia which has to be overcome.

Sorry I can't answer this from personal experience. In our own case, my wife swapped us to an energy co-op which provides 100% renewable electricity to our utility proportional to our consumption. The cost is only slightly higher than what we paid before here in Pennsylvania, but I expect it will decrease over time. Over the next couple decades, costs of fossil fuels will rise even as solar and wind decline, so the energy transition should be driven by costs even if people are unconcerned about the environment. Selling them on electric cars will be a lot more difficult, and will likely depend on government regulations.
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Climate Change
(06-22-2019, 10:25 AM)Alan V Wrote:
(06-22-2019, 08:44 AM)SYZ Wrote: —I'd be interested to see how these prices compare with US prices, which I'm guessing would be a lot cheaper
due to supply and demand?
First of all, we don't need the battery pack.  We can hook our solar up to the grid so that if we are producing more electricity than we are using, we get paid for it, and if we are not producing enough, we draw from the grid...

This is also an option in Australia, but in practice hasn't worked out as projected.

We pay around AU$1.55 per kWh for electricity from the grid, but only get back 8¢ per kWh for electricity
we put back into the grid. Most consumers here are saying that they take far more power from the grid
than they put back—which is why battery packs and inverters are becoming more common.
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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Climate Change
Melting of Himalayan glaciers has doubled in recent years
Fast-paced warming is consistently affecting huge region, says new study
Date: June 19, 2019
Source: Earth Institute at Columbia University
Summary: A newly comprehensive study shows that melting of Himalayan glaciers caused by rising temperatures has accelerated dramatically since the start of the 21st century.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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Climate Change
New research shows an iceless Greenland may be in our future
Date: June 19, 2019
Source: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Summary: New research shows that Greenland may be ice-free by the year 3000. This research uses new data on the landscape under the ice to make breakthroughs in modeling the island's future. The findings show if greenhouse gas concentrations remain on their current path, the melting ice from Greenland alone could contribute as much as 24 feet to global sea level rise by the time it disappears.
  [Image: pirates.gif] Dog  
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Climate Change
(06-23-2019, 07:46 AM)SYZ Wrote:
(06-22-2019, 10:25 AM)Alan V Wrote:
(06-22-2019, 08:44 AM)SYZ Wrote: —I'd be interested to see how these prices compare with US prices, which I'm guessing would be a lot cheaper
due to supply and demand?
First of all, we don't need the battery pack.  We can hook our solar up to the grid so that if we are producing more electricity than we are using, we get paid for it, and if we are not producing enough, we draw from the grid...

This is also an option in Australia, but in practice hasn't worked out as projected.

We pay around AU$1.55 per kWh for electricity from the grid, but only get back 8¢ per kWh for electricity
we put back into the grid.  Most consumers here are saying that they take far more power from the grid
than they put back—which is why battery packs and inverters are becoming more common.
Ouch, you are being screwed Undecided

In Germany you can feed back into the power grid, and you get decent money (at least more decent than in Australia it seems).

You currently get 11,35€ct per kWh for feeding back
You pay ca. 30€ct per kWh from the grid
You make approx. 450€ per year by feeding back ca. 4.000kWh (typically)
Panels cost ca. 9k€

Template calculations show that it takes ca. 10-12y for the solar panels to amortize.
cetero censeo religionem esse delendam 
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Climate Change
Germany is expecting fist heatwave of the summer that just has begun. On thursday we are expecting temperatures in excess of 40C (104F), which would break the all time heat record of 40C. Moreover, Thursday is "Siebenschläfer", a kind of Groundhog Day, which statistically has been proven to be 60% correct. So there is a 60% chance that a "extremely hot" weather condition is going to be prevalent for the next 7 weeks.

Lets see what the future brings.
cetero censeo religionem esse delendam 
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Climate Change
"The Trump administration has refused to publicize dozens of government-funded studies that carry warnings about the effects of climate change, defying a longstanding practice of touting such findings by the Agriculture Department’s acclaimed in-house scientists. The studies range from a groundbreaking discovery that rice loses vitamins in a carbon-rich environment — a potentially serious health concern for the 600 million people world-wide whose diet consists mostly of rice — to a finding that climate change could exacerbate allergy seasons to a warning to farmers about the reduction in quality of grasses important for raising cattle. All of these studies were peer-reviewed by scientists and cleared through the non-partisan Agricultural Research Service, one of the world’s leading sources of scientific information for farmers and consumers. None of the studies were focused on the causes of global warming – an often politically charged issue. Rather, the research examined the wide-ranging effects of rising carbon dioxide, increasing temperatures and volatile weather."

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/2...ge-1376413
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Climate Change
As a child and young man, I couldn't wait for summer. Now I dread it and it's getting worse with every year. 38 to 40 degrees celsius in june? Never had that. It's the hottest june in recorded history and the records go back to the year of 1760.

I dread what july and august may come up with.
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Climate Change
"For the last week, Republican members of the Oregon state Senate have been in hiding, fleeing the state rather than be forced to vote on a climate bill that would put a hard cap on greenhouse gas emissions. The goal? To run out the clock until the legislative session ends at the end of the month, robbing majority Democrats -- and the Democratic governor -- of a major priority."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/25/politics/...index.html
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Climate Change
"Philip Alston, UN special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, said the impacts of global heating are likely to undermine not only basic rights to life, water, food, and housing for hundreds of millions of people, but also democracy and the rule of law. Alston is critical of the 'patently inadequate' steps taken by the UN itself, countries, NGOs and businesses, saying they are 'entirely disproportionate to the urgency and magnitude of the threat'. His report to the UN human rights council (HRC) concludes: 'Human rights might not survive the coming upheaval.' "

...

"Alston’s report on climate change and poverty will be formally presented to the HRC in Geneva on Friday. It said the greatest impact of the climate crisis would be on those living in poverty, with many losing access to adequate food and water. 'Climate change threatens to undo the last 50 years of progress in development, global health, and poverty reduction,' Alston said. Developing countries will bear an estimated 75% of the costs of the climate crisis, the report said, despite the poorest half of the world’s population causing just 10% of carbon dioxide emissions."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/...o6Co5SQBcI
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Climate Change
" 'We always had flooding when you had a big rainfall in the tropics, but never did we have what we call sunny day flooding,' said Morales, who was born and raised in Miami Beach. 'The skies are blue, it's a gorgeous day, and yet water is coming up out of the drains and percolating up through the ground, and you see inches of water in the streets.' Cities are taking action to address these flooding issues, but the costs are steep. Miami Beach is spending $500 million to address the most vulnerable parts of the city by raising roads and installing pump stations to shore up flood-prone areas. Miami voters passed a $400 million bond measure, of which nearly $200 million will go toward solutions for sea level rise and flood prevention. But those millions will fund only a fraction of the work that needs to be done, with sea levels projected to rise as much as 6 feet by 2100."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/26/politics/...index.html
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Climate Change
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world...80156.html

Quote:  
Trump dismisses need for climage Donald Trump has again dismissed the need to tackle climate change by saying the US has the cleanest air and water “ever”.
The president, speaking at the G20 Summit in Japan, also claimed that wind power “does not work” because it has to be heavily subsidised.


“We have the cleanest water we have ever had, we have the cleanest air we’ve ever had, but I’m not willing to sacrifice the tremendous power of what we’ve built up over a long period of time and what I’ve enhanced and revived,” he said.
 

I can't understand how anyone views this guy as anything other than a pathological liar.  We have measurements. We know our air isn't the cleanest and our water isn't the cleanest. 
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Climate Change
Trump is correct to some degree...

[Image: air%2B2.jpg]
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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Climate Change
(06-29-2019, 02:07 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: I can't understand how anyone views this guy as anything other than a pathological liar.  We have measurements. We know our air isn't the cleanest and our water isn't the cleanest.

I assume that's an equivocation based on either ignorance or deliberate misinformation. Trump doesn't understand that CO2 pollution is a completely separate measurement than air quality.
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Climate Change
(06-29-2019, 02:41 PM)SYZ Wrote: Trump is correct to some degree...

[Image: air%2B2.jpg]


Fair enough, guess I should've checked that first. That was stupid of me.
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Climate Change
https://www.indy100.com/article/europe-w...ng-8978861

Quote:Wednesday marked the beginning of a major heat wave across Western Europe, with hot air moving south from the Sahara prompting record-setting high temperatures in France, Germany and Poland. 


The region is seeing record-breaking temperatures, with Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands all hitting 40 degrees and above. 

Furthermore, on Wednesday, Germany, Poland, and the Czech Republic recorded their highest ever temperatures for June. 
In fact, the temperatures are so high at present, that the weather map looks to be the spitting image of Edvard Munch's 1893 The Scream... 
[/font]
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Climate Change
[Image: Screenshot_2017_06_01_16.34.32.0.png]




Moron.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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Climate Change
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/0...as-climate

Quote:French riot police tear-gassed climate protesters in Paris on Friday as the county sweltered under record heat.


Activists with Extinction Rebellion (XR) were occupying a bridge over the Seine to demand the French government declare a climate emergency and take necessary action to avert planetary catastrophe.

"We need to civilly disrupt because, otherwise, nothing is going to be done," a British woman who took part in the protest told Euronews.
Video shows the police teargassing the protesters at a close range and then forcibly trying to remove them from the scene.
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Climate Change
(06-24-2019, 04:49 PM)abaris Wrote: As a child and young man, I couldn't wait for summer. Now I dread it and it's getting worse with every year. 38 to 40 degrees celsius in june? Never had that. It's the hottest june in recorded history and the records go back to the year of 1760.

I dread what july and august may come up with.

Indeed. In the early nineties, September in Colorado was the golden month of the year. Temperatures were warm, evenings were cool. Now, October is the month we all look forward to. Not quite as pleasant as September used to be, but still it's usually very nice.

We had our first 100 deg. day in the month of September since records have been kept, just a couple years ago. We're also setting new overall heat records every 2-3 years and new heat records for specific dates every few weeks. We had record snow-pack in the mountains, despite record warm temperatures in December and January yet we may face drought conditions this fall anyway because the snow-pack is melting at record rates. All this, and there are still people who live here, and can remember when September was that golden time of year, who deny the science of climate change.

Something about the warming trend that people forget is that the climate models we were using in the eighties predicted a cooling trend and possibly the beginning of another ice age. Those models weren't wrong. The conditions they were modeling changed. Some are now arguing that the planet might be warming up, but it's naught to do with us, so there's nothing we can do. I say, bullshit. If there's nothing we can do, there's still no harm in trying. If we can have an affect, then it doesn't ultimately matter what the cause is, as long as we can fix it at least well enough to prevent the mass extinction that's going to happen if we do nothing.
[Image: Bastard-Signature.jpg]
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Climate Change
(06-29-2019, 08:27 PM)TheGentlemanBastard Wrote: Something about the warming trend that people forget is that the climate models we were using in the eighties predicted a cooling trend and possibly the beginning of another ice age. Those models weren't wrong. The conditions they were modeling changed. Some are now arguing that the planet might be warming up, but it's naught to do with us, so there's nothing we can do. I say, bullshit. If there's nothing we can do, there's still no harm in trying. If we can have an affect, then it doesn't ultimately matter what the cause is, as long as we can fix it at least well enough to prevent the mass extinction that's going to happen if we do nothing.

"By the 1970s, scientists were becoming increasingly aware that estimates of global temperatures showed cooling since 1945, as well as the possibility of large scale warming due to emissions of greenhouse gases. In the scientific papers which considered climate trends of the 21st century, less than 10% inclined towards future cooling, while most papers predicted future warming. The general public had little awareness of carbon dioxide's effects on climate, but Science News in May 1959 forecast a 25% increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide in the 150 years from 1850 to 2000, with a consequent warming trend. The actual increase in this period was 29%. Paul R. Ehrlich mentioned climate change from greenhouse gases in 1968. By the time the idea of global cooling reached the public press in the mid-1970s temperatures had stopped falling, and there was concern in the climatological community about carbon dioxide's warming effects. In response to such reports, the World Meteorological Organization issued a warning in June 1976 that 'a very significant warming of global climate' was probable."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

My comment:  The cooling after 1945 was because of increased particulate pollution due to increased industrial production after World War II.  That was during a time when climate scientists had not yet isolated the "signal" of climate change from the "noise" of random variations due to other factors.  That warming trend only became apparent in the 1990s, and the signal relative to the noise has only increased since then, along with scientific certainty about its causes.
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Climate Change
(06-24-2019, 04:49 PM)abaris Wrote: As a child and young man, I couldn't wait for summer. Now I dread it and it's getting worse with every year. 38 to 40 degrees celsius in june? Never had that. It's the hottest june in recorded history and the records go back to the year of 1760.

I dread what july and august may come up with.

On the other hand, while being an adult you also want more excuses to be lazy. Summer is a good excuse for that.
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Climate Change
(06-29-2019, 09:01 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: On the other hand, while being an adult you also want more excuses to be lazy. Summer is a good excuse for that.

No, it isn't. First, I got to work. And air copnditioning isn't as widespread as it is in the US. Never needed that before and so the office is a sauna. Secondly, what I loved about summer was it's warm temperature. Not it's infernal heat.

They started to record temperatures around 1760 in our parts. Six of the top ten hottest summers in recorded history have been in the 21st century. 2 in the 90ies of the last century and only 2 in the whole 19th century. 2018 has been the hottest so far. 2019 may beat that record if it continues like that. The south of France already has beaten 45 degrees celsius on friday. Hereabouts we may beat 40 on monday, if the forecaast is correct. I'm not a subsaharran citizen´being used to that kind of temperatures. There's nothing funny about that. Far as I am informed, Australia had a similar summer and many people perished because of that.
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Climate Change
(06-29-2019, 05:39 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:
(06-29-2019, 02:41 PM)SYZ Wrote: Trump is correct to some degree...
Fair enough, guess I should've checked that first. That was stupid of me.

Not by any means.  Atmospheric pollution was much lower in the US prior to the industrial
revolution, say 200 years ago.  Strictly speaking then, Trump is wrong (which is why I said
"some").    

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Climate Change
From https://www.cbsnews.com/news/renewable-e...khTtifdrKU :

* 22% of the electricity generated in the U.S. in April came from renewable sources, compared with 20% from coal, marking a milestone for clean energy

* Historically low prices for renewables are driving the shift, with seasonal factors also playing a role.

* Coal is increasingly a money-loser, with more than 50 plants closing in the last three years.
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Climate Change
"Another deadly heat wave has Europe in its sweaty grip this week. Record temperatures topped 100 degrees Fahrenheit (37.8 degrees Celsius) in parts of France, Germany, Poland and Spain, with hotter days to come. The same thing happened last year—record-breaking heat was responsible for 700 deaths in Sweden and more than 250 in Denmark, countries that have never needed air conditioning before this new era of climate-change-driven extreme events. Europe’s five hottest summers in the past 500 years have all occurred in the last 15 years, not including this summer. All have been deadly. The 2003 heat wave was the worst, having led to the deaths of over 70,000 people; in 2010, 56,000 died in Russia alone."

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/envir...PRf_pqhOkE
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