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Why do Christians trust YHWH?
#26

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
"Love me or I'll set you on fire."

-some dingus
Don't mistake me for those nice folks from Give-A-Shit county.
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#27

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-18-2019, 03:13 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote: "Love me or I'll set you on fire."

-some dingus

Actually, if I understand correctly, christians support jews because there has to be a Jewish State before the Rapture can occur.  I might be wrong about that, but that is an argument I see sometimes.
I just believe in one less deity than most people.
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#28

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
A particular subset of batshit crazy xtians, yes.

Here's a sample:

https://www.jhm.org/Articles/2019-03-01-...y-revealed


Quote:Bible prophecy clearly reveals that in the last days prior to the rapture of the church, four powerful kings will race onto the world stage with two objectives.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#29

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Sheep are lost without keeper.
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#30

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-18-2019, 03:56 PM)no one Wrote: Sheep are lost without keeper.

What about bees?
Don't mistake me for those nice folks from Give-A-Shit county.
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#31

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-18-2019, 11:02 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(09-18-2019, 03:13 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote: "Love me or I'll set you on fire."

-some dingus

Actually, if I understand correctly, christians support jews because there has to be a Jewish State before the Rapture can occur.  I might be wrong about that, but that is an argument I see sometimes.

When it comes to eschatology -- the theology of the end times -- the notion of a "rapture" followed by a 7 year Great Tribulation is actually very much a minority position. It's fair to say that most of Christianity, historically, has seen its job as bringing about the kingdom of god as an earthly reality. That is why the great denominations built cathedrals for the ages and the evangelicals build pole barns. Why build for the future or try to build a future if you're an apocalyptic death cult? But this is not inherent in Christianity, it is what part of it is, based on a certain more literal and florid interpretation of the Book of Revelations.

Even if you are of the apocalyptic persuasion, Israel has been a state since 1947 so it is not so much a matter of them attempting to usher in the end times by supporting the Jews; they just see the eventual salvation of Israel as something they have a part in bringing about by honoring Israel's special status as "god's chosen people". They are stuck on this passage where god says of Israel, "I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you". They simply don't want that curse to fall on themselves, but they DO want it to fall upon their enemies. That would be, in part, us hateful atheists, or anyone else who thinks Israel's shit doesn't stink.

Edit: I should add that I'm not in any way suggesting that the influence of these nutters isn't outsized. It's true that, depending on whose figures you believe, evangelicals are between 1/6 and 1/3 of Christianity worldwide, and hardcore fundamentalists are some subset of those folks. I would imagine that less than half of evangelicals would be on board with some kind of coordinated effort to bring about, say, an American theocracy or to influence foreign policy to encourage their imagined apocalypse. Maybe less. So it's as little as 5 or 10% of "Christians". But my observation of late is that that small minority is very much into imposing minority rule by any means necessary. Very ruthless and dangerous. Also they feel cornered, which makes them even more dangerous.
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#32

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
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#33

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
[Image: icon_quote.jpg]This guy:
Sheep are lost without their keeper.

[Image: icon_quote.jpg]OMM:
What about bees?

They have their knees.
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#34

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-18-2019, 11:02 AM)Cavebear Wrote:
(09-18-2019, 03:13 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote: "Love me or I'll set you on fire."

-some dingus

Actually, if I understand correctly, christians support jews because there has to be a Jewish State before the Rapture can occur.  I might be wrong about that, but that is an argument I see sometimes.

Yes. That is to say some of the smaller millennial sects, such as  Pentacostals , Seventh Day Adventists and  JW's (I think) .' The Rapture' fits in there somewhere.   Not a position Of Catholics or the  larger Protestant denominations .

There' s a LOT of information online. The literalists get all exercised  defending the notion an explaining why" The Roman Church " is wrong.  For their part ,Catholics do their best not to laugh at them. --Catholics know  it's wicked to mock the afflicted . Besides ,they're all going to hell with rest of the Non Catholics.  That group includes atheists, Communists and  [in Australia]  those who vote for the  godless Labor Party. Well that was the case when I was a gossoon. It may have changed [officially] since.
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#35

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-19-2019, 02:52 PM)no one Wrote: [Image: icon_quote.jpg]This guy:
Sheep are lost without their keeper.

[Image: icon_quote.jpg]OMM:
What about bees?

They have their knees.

That's hilarious !!
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#36

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
To be perfectly honest, I would doubt most Christians would even know who or what "Yahweh" is.
Pew demonstrated 50 % of Lutherans don't know who Martin Luther was.
50 % of Catholics don't know what "transubstantiation" is.
Most people are just trying to make it through their day, make sure the kids get home from school,
eat supper, and do their homework.
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#37

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-19-2019, 10:34 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Pew demonstrated 50 % of Lutherans don't know who Martin Luther was.

That's fucking crazy. The Lutheran church I went to made a bigger deal out of Reformation Sunday than Easter. It's like they were more concerned with being Lutheran than being Christian, or something.
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#38

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-19-2019, 10:34 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: To be perfectly honest, I would doubt most Christians would even know who or what "Yahweh" is.
Pew demonstrated 50 % of Lutherans don't know who Martin Luther was.
50 % of Catholics don't know what "transubstantiation" is.
Most people are just trying to make it through their day, make sure the kids get home from school,
eat supper, and do their homework.

Indeed. A lot harder to think deep thoughts when one is preoccupied with work, marriage, kids, health etc,etc  Much easier when one is retired and has the time and inclination.  Consider

I once had an argument  with a casual catholic ( mass at Xmas and easter) who was utterly convinced reincarnation is a Catholic belief.
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#39

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-20-2019, 02:11 AM)grympy Wrote: [quote="Bucky Ball" pid='147861' dateline='1568932490']
To be perfectly honest, I would doubt most Christians would even know who or what "Yahweh" is.
Pew demonstrated 50 % of Lutherans don't know who Martin Luther was.
50 % of Catholics don't know what "transubstantiation" is.
Most people are just trying to make it through their day, make sure the kids get home from school,
eat supper, and do their homework.

Indeed. A lot harder to think deep thoughts when one is preoccupied with work, marriage, kids, health etc,etc  Much easier when one is retired and has the time and inclination.  Consider

I once had an argument  with a casual catholic ( mass at Xmas and easter) who was utterly convinced reincarnation is a Catholic belief.
 
Not surprised about Transubstantiation. Luther rejected it outright. I wonder who cared, even then.  I've long seen it as a subtle piece Jesuitical or Dominican or whatever , sophistry.   Be most interested to discover what  percentage  can give a coherent explanation of the Trinity . I've always  had problems getting my head around implications of the concept.  

OF Course I asked  Brother Frantic at my Catholic  boys school, at about age 12 .  His response was the same with any difficult doctrine " It's a mystery of faith, we just believe it "

 Of course they had no problem with that, because Jesus himself is reported as encouraging blind faith. (John :20:29  Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”)
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#40

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-20-2019, 02:25 AM)grympy Wrote:
(09-20-2019, 02:11 AM)grympy Wrote: [quote="Bucky Ball" pid='147861' dateline='1568932490']
To be perfectly honest, I would doubt most Christians would even know who or what "Yahweh" is.
Pew demonstrated 50 % of Lutherans don't know who Martin Luther was.
50 % of Catholics don't know what "transubstantiation" is.
Most people are just trying to make it through their day, make sure the kids get home from school,
eat supper, and do their homework.

Indeed. A lot harder to think deep thoughts when one is preoccupied with work, marriage, kids, health etc,etc  Much easier when one is retired and has the time and inclination.  Consider

I once had an argument  with a casual catholic ( mass at Xmas and easter) who was utterly convinced reincarnation is a Catholic belief.
 
Not surprised about Transubstantiation. Luther rejected it outright. I wonder who cared, even then.  I've long seen it as a subtle piece Jesuitical or Dominican or whatever , sophistry.   Be most interested to discover what  percentage  can give a coherent explanation of the Trinity . I've always  had problems getting my head around implications of the concept.  

OF Course I asked  Brother Frantic at my Catholic  boys school, at about age 12 .  His response was the same with any difficult doctrine " It's a mystery of faith, we just believe it "

 Of course they had no problem with that, because Jesus himself is reported as encouraging blind faith. (John :20:29  Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”)

Aquinas said (somewhere) that if anyone said they understand the trinity, they were lying. 
(They know it makes no sense).
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#41

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Quote:I wonder who cared, even then.

Quote:An event that occurred in Constantinople around the year 511 suggests the parallels. The church of the day had a beloved hymn, the Trisagion or Thrice Holy, which praised, “Holy God, Holy and Mighty, Holy Immortal” (Orthodox churches sing it to this day). But the emperor, Anastasius, wanted to revise it in the Monophysite fashion, by lauding this God “Who was crucified for our sakes.” The new formula proclaimed that it was God alone who walked the soil of Palestine in the first century and suffered on the cross, a view that ignores the human reality of Jesus. So angry were the capital’s residents that they launched a bloody riot:
 
 Persons of rank and station were brought into extreme danger, and many principal parts of the city were set on fire. In the house of Marinus the Syrian, the populace found a monk from the country. They cut off his head, saying that the clause had been added at his instigation; and having fixed it upon a pole, jeeringly exclaimed: “See the plotter against the Trinity!

Pgs 44-45 from The Jesus Wars, J. P. Jenkins

So much for the idea that only muslims pull this kind of shit!
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#42

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
So many posts with interesting thoughts.  It is impossible to respond to all of them, nor to quote them normally.
 
So I’m just going to post a lot of simple quotes and the sources…
 
My original post was “Actually, if I understand correctly, christians support jews because there has to be a Jewish State before the Rapture can occur.  I might be wrong about that, but that is an argument I see sometimes.”
 
Minimalist said “A particular subset of batshit crazy xtians, yes.”
 
I think there is a lot of batshit Christians.  And other theists.
 
No One said “Sheep are lost without keeper”.
 
I think that sheep are prey because they need a shepherd, but I get your point.  As they are, when without one, they are lost.
 
Old Man Marsh asked “What about bees?”.  I have been following the demise of bees.  I can’t rell whether their problems are human-caused  or just natural events.  Human overmanagement of any species can be harmful to it,  or we might just be keeping them alive through care.  I think it is unresolved.
 
Mordant offered some interesting thoughts and I can’t answer all of them.  I will say that he might be underestimating the assumptions what hardcore christians believe about the end of days and what they fight for in elections.  A dedicated minority can have powerful real-world influence.
 
No one mentioned bees and knees.  That was an old phrase of my grandparents.  To them, phrases like “the bees’s knees” and  “the cat’s pajamas”  meant “cool things”.  And by saying “cool”, I’m probably dating myself.
 
Grympy said “Yes. That is to say some of the smaller millennial sects, such as  Pentacostals , Seventh Day Adventists and  JW's (I think) .' The Rapture' fits in there somewhere.   Not a position Of Catholics or the  larger Protestant denominations .”
 
I disagree.  It seems to me that many mainstream catholics and protestants seems to expect The Rapture” someday and OK, maybe more protestants than catholics, but more than you might realize.
 
Bucky Ball said “To be perfectly honest, I would doubt most Christians would even know who or what "Yahweh" is.   Pew demonstrated 50 % of Lutherans don't know who Martin Luther was.  50 % of Catholics don't know what "transubstantiation" is”.
 
I wouldn’t be extremely surprised.  The ignorance (and I only mean that in the sense of non-knowledge) is routine among theists,  They aren’t great at either knowledge or thinking.
 
RobbyPants said “The Lutheran church I went to made a bigger deal out of Reformation Sunday than Easter. It's like they were more concerned with being Lutheran than being Christian, or something”.
 
Good for them.  Being a Lutheran without knowing who Luther was would be pretty stupid.  I do wonder how many of them could pass a relatively simple test about Luther’s ideas though.
 
Grympy mentioned “Not surprised about Transubstantiation. Luther rejected it outright. I wonder who cared, even then.  I've long seen it as a subtle piece Jesuitical or Dominican or whatever , sophistry.   Be most interested to discover what  percentage  can give a coherent explanation of the Trinity . I've always  had problems getting my head around implications of the concept.  

OF Course I asked  Brother Frantic at my Catholic  boys school, at about age 12 .  His response was the same with any difficult doctrine " It's a mystery of faith, we just believe it "
 
Ah the Jesuits, forgiven in advance for lying about religion in order to support the faith… 
 
I’m not surprised about Brother Frantic.  When you haven’t any actual facts, faith is a revert position. 
 
As best I understand the Trinity it, is a remnent of multidiesm from the Romans and mystery created to baffle those who emaine relinion logically.  The catholics are especially good at that.
 
Minimalist said “So much for the idea that only muslims pull this kind of shit!”
 
I’ve never said any theism was less stupid than the rest.  I just no less about muslim theism than Christian theism.  But I AM pretty sure theirs is as dumb as the rest.  I do notice that they aren’t all that different for christians and jews.  They all have the same origin myths for example, just none or different messiahs.
 
So that’s my post to catch up.   Rip it up all you want and I’ll be back later.
I just believe in one less deity than most people.
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#43

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-17-2019, 04:41 AM)Minimalist Wrote: You could invest in a pair of these.

[Image: 294294_ts.jpg]


Useful when drippy is around.

Min, we're dealing with Drippy. This is far more appropriate:
[Image: 800px-DiveSuitNHMDF.JPG]
[Image: Bastard-Signature.jpg]
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#44

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Quote:I’ve never said any theism was less stupid than the rest.

Not stupid.  "Violent" when it suits them.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#45

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-19-2019, 10:34 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: To be perfectly honest, I would doubt most Christians would even know who or what "Yahweh" is.

In the fundagelical world some of the praise songs toward the end of my time in that movement would mention Yahweh by that name as well as certain other Hebrew appellations, e.g., Jehovah Jireh = God will provide, El Shaddai, etc. These were just affectations in songs, though. We weren't taught about the evolution of El into Yahweh / the transition from the heavenly council led by the Hebrew war god becoming the monotheistic "one true god". These were things I only read about after leaving the faith. These concepts violate the dogma that god is immutable. Or for that matter, that god is real.
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#46

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
In the fundagelical world they think jesus's last name was "christ."
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#47

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-21-2019, 01:18 AM)Minimalist Wrote: In the fundagelical world they think jesus's last name was "christ."

I thought it was "Woodcutt".
Don't mistake me for those nice folks from Give-A-Shit county.
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#48

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Question: Why do Christians trust YHWH?

Answer:

Because they lack the intellect to think critically, utilize logical and deductive reasoning, and analytical and rational thinking.

Plus. They were brainwashed by religion's perfect tactic of using mental rape, emotional molestation, and psychological terrorism to brainwash persons when they are of the ages 4 to 14 when children are at their most vulnerable for cultural and societal conditioning.

Furthermore, read into this what you wish, ALL religions are Pure Evil.

rmfr
It shall always be more important to know how to think rather than to be told what to think - rmfr
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#49

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
[Image: 2d5xwy.jpg]
[Image: signature%20The-Ascension-of-Iweko.jpg]
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#50

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-21-2019, 07:13 PM)arakish Wrote: Question: Why do Christians trust YHWH?

Answer:

Because they lack the intellect to think critically, utilize logical and deductive reasoning, and analytical and rational thinking.

Plus.  They were brainwashed by religion's perfect tactic of using mental rape, emotional molestation, and psychological terrorism to brainwash persons when they are of the ages 4 to 14 when children are at their most vulnerable for cultural and societal conditioning.

Furthermore, read into this what you wish, ALL religions are Pure Evil.

rmfr

 What can I say?  Apart from the fact I find generalisations intellectually l lazy, I have a different view.

Religions reflect the  societies which invent them . Therefore, fear anger, hatred, and violence already existed.  At its  very best  religion tries  to deal with such things in a more positive way than killing  or harming others.

Religions have always  been used to justify the most heinous  behaviour imaginable . In wars, all sides invariably claim  divine approval .

Judging religions by their  sacred books gives the correct impression that they are morally ambiguous. IE' "all things to all men".Justification can be found for behaviour ranging from genocide, to life long compassion. If anything that makes  religions a-moral .

I think to make the sweeping generalisation that religions are 'pure evil' is simplistic  at best. 




Examples:

  The Buddha said "above all ,loving kindness" 

In response to the question "What is the greatest  commandment?" Jesus answered, the greatest is the first , to love God. Apart from that, the second, to love your neighbour is the greatest. In response to  "who is my neighbour"    Jesus told the parable of The Good Samaritan.IE every man is our neighbour. Another way of saying all men are brothers  .

Part of the revered Hindu books which make up the Mahabharata , is "The The Bhagavad Gita" (The Song Of God" )  It takes the form of a dialogue  between the god Krishna and a man 'Arjuna' . The dialogue is about the nature and cause of suffering. Perhaps have a glance at the book.  Should be available free on line. 

The above are only a few examples of the good and wisdom which can be found within most religions, hardy evil.

Organised religion is usually pretty corrupt,  some  extremely so.  EG I think the Catholic Church has been ineffably  corrupt since about the 5th century. The Borgia and Medici Popes of The Renaissance were pretty evil. But not every pope  and not every priest has been or is evil .

Religions are neither good nor evil in themselves. It is the people who control and who practice them which brings the good or evil.

The above is MY opinion, make of it what you will.
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