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Why do Christians trust YHWH?
#1

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
I posted this back at TTA in the day, but I wanted to bring it over:


So, according to the Bible, YHWH is the source of all of our morality. He tells us not to kill, steal, rape lie, or covet, yet, he frequently breaks his own rules. He's on record for murdering the crap out of lots of people. Even children! So, you ask an apologist "what the shit?" and they'll say something to the effect of "God has no moral imperative not to kill us" or "those rules are for us, not God" or "who are you to question the Almighty!?"

Fair enough, I suppose (not really), but how do you know God isn't lying at any given time? He has no moral imperative to tell the truth, the rules about lying don't apply to him, and hey, who are we to question him? The apologetics are pretty clear on this.

So, how does a Christian trust any single word written in the Bible or allegedly said by God? Any traits they give him (like holding to his covenants) are all told to us... by God. How do we know he holds his covenants?


So, Christians: how can you trust God?
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#2

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
You might have wanted to wait for more Christians to actually sign up before asking this question, Robby. Tongue I believe Shai Hulud is the only one at the moment.
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#3

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
It's a case of "I'm the biggest bully on the playground, so what I say goes.  I get to judge you but you don't get to judge me or hold me by the standards I set for you."  This is pretty much the case that God - YHWH - makes to Job, and it's one of the reasons that the Book of Job is quite frankly the stupidest book contained in the Bible.  42 pointless chapters of God tormenting a guy because he made a wager with Satan, and when Job asks why, God replies "My Universe, my rules.  You couldn't build it, so don't judge me."

No, be assured that, by any standard Yahweh is a corrupt, evil motherfucker who utilized dirty tricks, murder, violence, torture, brutality, cruelty, selfishness, jealousy.  Yet Yahweh seems to have a man-crush on humans for some reason and cannot bear to be apart from them and gets pissed if we ignore him.

Look at the Ten Commandments

1) I am the Lord, your God.  You shall have no other gods before me - Typical sentiment of a petty, bronze age tyrant.

2) You shall not make for yourselves any graven image - ............why?  You're FUCKING GOD ALMIGHTY and yet you still need National Park status for your ass?

3) You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain. - well, Goddammit, why not?  You can't extent respect to any of your creation, don't expect to have it returned to you.  Maybe your Son needs to have a chat with you about doing unto others what they would have done unto you.

4) Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy - Yeah a guy like Martin Luther King Jr. fought and died so people could have basic freedoms and dignity extended to them and he gets 1 day a year.  You need ever Saturday off because........you're just you, right asshole?

5) Honor thy father and mother - Wow, we finally come across a sage piece of advice in the middle of this that isn't a monument to your vanity!

6) Thou shalt not commit murder - Again, decent legal advice for how to run a society.  I grant you, we had figured this out a long time before this because murder has been outlawed in human societies for millennia.  Still I can't argue with it.

7) You shall not commit adultery - I'll have sex with whatever consenting adult I wish to.  You designed humans as sexually hyperactive and to use the mating act for social bonding and pleasure, in or outside of marriage.  Don't whine about it when we avail ourselves of this.

8) You shall not steal - See notes for #6.

9) You shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor - ........Ok, again decent advice as well as has practical legal applications in the case of perjury.

10) You shall not covet - Unless this is becoming a destructive element in one's life, why the hell not?  I would love to own my neighbor's Learjet and fuck his hot wife.  I don't care what you think of that.

So there you have it - 4 commandments are monuments to YHWH's vanity, 3 are garbage advice, 1 has semi-practical legal applications and only 2 - a mere 20% - are of any real use to a society.

And it just goes to show the only real person YHWH loves or cares about is Himself.
Her glory is like his glory
It's strong and true and good
You know she is a source of joy.
Her seed gives life and food.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/IfduP2-tOZg/maxresdefault.jpg
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#4

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(10-02-2018, 05:18 AM)Sunflower link Wrote: And it just goes to show the only real person YHWH loves or cares about is Himself.

My wife goes to a fairly liberal church. In some ways, they are more self-aware than a lot of other Christians I know, but at the end of the day, they still believe in their own version of the Christian god.

A few years ago, one guy was talking, and he'd noted now narcissistic God seemed, when you look at it. I remember him putting his fists on his waist, puffing out his chest, and saying "worship me!" in a mocking voice. Then, he went on to explain how this wasn't the case in an super non-satisfactory way. He basically said "Yeah, when you look at it, God really looks like a narcissist, but I don't want to believe he is, so he must not be!"

Sigh. So close. In all fairness, I remember doing that same thing, too.
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#5

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
I think Christians trust him because he is them. These days everybody cherry-picks what god says; naturally they pick things they feel good about.
Presto, you have a god who loves and hates the same things you do. And as humans we bond with, and trust, people who share our sentiments.

It's a serpent that eats it own tail.
"The advantage of faith over reason, is that reason requires understanding. Which usually requires education; resources of time and money. 
Religion needs none of that. - It empowers the lowliest idiot to pretend that he is wiser than the wise, ignoring all the indications otherwise "
 - A. Ra
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#6

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Don't you need some Christians to ask questions of Christians?

And if we get Christians, can we have lions too?

Back on topic, they don't.

The funny thing is they actually trust the Devil. You know that image of angel on one shoulder devil on the other? Yeah, Devil every time.

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#7

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
When it comes to biblical god his possible lies are of minor importance. Christians book of fables show him as guilty of genocide - whether they can trust him or not, he remains murderous tyrant.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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#8

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Cuz he's the war god. The Babylonian god of the armies (the "Lord of Hosts" ... a host is an army in battle formation).
Xtians seem to be fighting some sort of war I guess, so ... it makes sense.  PartyBalloons
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#9

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(10-02-2018, 05:18 AM)Sunflower Wrote: It's a case of "I'm the biggest bully on the playground, so what I say goes.  I get to judge you but you don't get to judge me or hold me by the standards I set for you."  This is pretty much the case that God - YHWH - makes to Job, and it's one of the reasons that the Book of Job is quite frankly the stupidest book contained in the Bible.  42 pointless chapters of God tormenting a guy because he made a wager with Satan, and when Job asks why, God replies "My Universe, my rules.  You couldn't build it, so don't judge me."

No, be assured that, by any standard Yahweh is a corrupt, evil motherfucker who utilized dirty tricks, murder, violence, torture, brutality, cruelty, selfishness, jealousy.  Yet Yahweh seems to have a man-crush on humans for some reason and cannot bear to be apart from them and gets pissed if we ignore him.

Look at the Ten Commandments

1) I am the Lord, your God.  You shall have no other gods before me - Typical sentiment of a petty, bronze age tyrant.

2) You shall not make for yourselves any graven image - ............why?  You're FUCKING GOD ALMIGHTY and yet you still need National Park status for your ass?

3) You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain. - well, Goddammit, why not?  You can't extent respect to any of your creation, don't expect to have it returned to you.  Maybe your Son needs to have a chat with you about doing unto others what they would have done unto you.

4) Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy - Yeah a guy like Martin Luther King Jr. fought and died so people could have basic freedoms and dignity extended to them and he gets 1 day a year.  You need ever Saturday off because........you're just you, right asshole?

5) Honor thy father and mother - Wow, we finally come across a sage piece of advice in the middle of this that isn't a monument to your vanity!

6) Thou shalt not commit murder - Again, decent legal advice for how to run a society.  I grant you, we had figured this out a long time before this because murder has been outlawed in human societies for millennia.  Still I can't argue with it.

7) You shall not commit adultery - I'll have sex with whatever consenting adult I wish to.  You designed humans as sexually hyperactive and to use the mating act for social bonding and pleasure, in or outside of marriage.  Don't whine about it when we avail ourselves of this.

8) You shall not steal - See notes for #6.

9) You shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor - ........Ok, again decent advice as well as has practical legal applications in the case of perjury.

10) You shall not covet - Unless this is becoming a destructive element in one's life, why the hell not?  I would love to own my neighbor's Learjet and fuck his hot wife.  I don't care what you think of that.

So there you have it - 4 commandments are monuments to YHWH's vanity, 3 are garbage advice, 1 has semi-practical legal applications and only 2 - a mere 20% - are of any real use to a society.

And it just goes to show the only real person YHWH loves or cares about is Himself.

Great list.  I would add that the few commandments that make sense to a human society were already understood before any human religious texts (writing) were possible. 

What primitive tribe would not know to respect their elders?  They had learned stuff.  It made sense to listen to their experience.

What primitive tribe would not know to avoid theft, covetness, and lying about one's neighbors?

What primitive tribe would not know to not commit murder among their community?

All religious texts merely declare what any sensible pre-historic person in a small or large group already knew...
I just believe in one less deity than most people.
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#10

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-30-2018, 01:07 PM)RobbyPants Wrote: I posted this back at TTA in the day, but I wanted to bring it over:


So, according to the Bible, YHWH is the source of all of our morality. He tells us not to kill, steal, rape lie, or covet, yet, he frequently breaks his own rules. He's on record for murdering the crap out of lots of people. Even children! So, you ask an apologist "what the shit?" and they'll say something to the effect of "God has no moral imperative not to kill us" or "those rules are for us, not God" or "who are you to question the Almighty!?"

Fair enough, I suppose (not really), but how do you know God isn't lying at any given time? He has no moral imperative to tell the truth, the rules about lying don't apply to him, and hey, who are we to question him? The apologetics are pretty clear on this.

So, how does a Christian trust any single word written in the Bible or allegedly said by God? Any traits they give him (like holding to his covenants) are all told to us... by God. How do we know he holds his covenants?


So, Christians: how can you trust God?

 I don't distrust  god. Indeedly doodly not.   I simply don't believe he exists ,so the problem doesn't really come up.

Religious belief is based on faith, (belief in things unseen)  it has nothing whatever to do with logic or reason ,it is a-logical. Once on accepts the idea, one is seldom even mildly surprised  at what lunacy believers take for granted.  Trusting the jealous, cruel, sadistic  vindictive, genocidal, 'orrible cunt YHWH of the old testament is small potatoes.


I think Lewis Carroll summed up the position of the devout believer very well: 

“Alice laughed. 'There's no use trying,' she said. 'One can't believe impossible things.'

I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. !”     
 
Lewis  Carroll "Through The LookingGlass"
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#11

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(10-02-2018, 05:18 AM)Sunflower Wrote: It's a case of "I'm the biggest bully on the playground, so what I say goes.  I get to judge you but you don't get to judge me or hold me by the standards I set for you."  This is pretty much the case that God - YHWH - makes to Job, and it's one of the reasons that the Book of Job is quite frankly the stupidest book contained in the Bible.  42 pointless chapters of God tormenting a guy because he made a wager with Satan, and when Job asks why, God replies "My Universe, my rules.  You couldn't build it, so don't judge me."

No, be assured that, by any standard Yahweh is a corrupt, evil motherfucker who utilized dirty tricks, murder, violence, torture, brutality, cruelty, selfishness, jealousy.  Yet Yahweh seems to have a man-crush on humans for some reason and cannot bear to be apart from them and gets pissed if we ignore him.

Look at the Ten Commandments

1) I am the Lord, your God.  You shall have no other gods before me - Typical sentiment of a petty, bronze age tyrant.

2) You shall not make for yourselves any graven image - ............why?  You're FUCKING GOD ALMIGHTY and yet you still need National Park status for your ass?

3) You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain. - well, Goddammit, why not?  You can't extent respect to any of your creation, don't expect to have it returned to you.  Maybe your Son needs to have a chat with you about doing unto others what they would have done unto you.

4) Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy - Yeah a guy like Martin Luther King Jr. fought and died so people could have basic freedoms and dignity extended to them and he gets 1 day a year.  You need ever Saturday off because........you're just you, right asshole?

5) Honor thy father and mother - Wow, we finally come across a sage piece of advice in the middle of this that isn't a monument to your vanity!

6) Thou shalt not commit murder - Again, decent legal advice for how to run a society.  I grant you, we had figured this out a long time before this because murder has been outlawed in human societies for millennia.  Still I can't argue with it.

7) You shall not commit adultery - I'll have sex with whatever consenting adult I wish to.  You designed humans as sexually hyperactive and to use the mating act for social bonding and pleasure, in or outside of marriage.  Don't whine about it when we avail ourselves of this.

8) You shall not steal - See notes for #6.

9) You shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor - ........Ok, again decent advice as well as has practical legal applications in the case of perjury.

10) You shall not covet - Unless this is becoming a destructive element in one's life, why the hell not?  I would love to own my neighbor's Learjet and fuck his hot wife.  I don't care what you think of that.

So there you have it - 4 commandments are monuments to YHWH's vanity, 3 are garbage advice, 1 has semi-practical legal applications and only 2 - a mere 20% - are of any real use to a society.

And it just goes to show the only real person YHWH loves or cares about is Himself.

 Even more interesting once it is realised that Mosaic Law consists of a total of 613 mitzvah .(commandments)  Collectively known as 'The Mitzvot" .They cover every detail of the life of the pious Jew from his bris* (circumcision) at age 8 days, to his burial, which must be within 24 hours of death 

*  The Bris is not actually part of Mosaic law, it is part of the  Abrahamic covenant ; after that unpleasant  incident where YHWH demands Abraham sacrifices his son Isaac (Genesis 21 :1-3)
  

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

The link below lists all 613 mitzvah with explanations . Note this is from a Jewish perspective  so perhaps a bit different. 


http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
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#12

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Simple: they don't see it as him breaking his own rules, cuz he's god and makes the rules.
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#13

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-16-2019, 06:11 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote: Simple: they don't see it as him breaking his own rules, cuz he's god and makes the rules.

For Christians, yes, I think.  But not for devout orthodox Jews.  

Talmudic Scholars (those  who study The Law)  constantly  question god, to the most trivial a degree.God is never seen as breaking  his own laws. Should that happen ,the whole world of the devout Orthodox  Jew, his Zeitgeist, would be destroyed .

In fact many Jews saw the Holocaust as god breaking his own laws. Specifically, The Abrahamic Covenant, when  god made the Jews his chosen people .Many Holocaust  survivors became atheists became atheist because  of their unimaginable experiences . 

Religions always reflect the culture which invents them.  So, the  three Abrahamic religions (Judaism. Christianity and Islam ) have their beginning in an illiterate  bronze  age tribe of goat herders.   Their  petty, local god YHWH, was going to be  savage and  brutal, as was their life.   With time, religions change  to reflect the in their culture.   Consequently, YHWH went from a local god to creator of the Universe, and the only god, which he was not even after Exodus. New qualities were simply added .  It s not god who is the vicious ,capricious  creature of the Old Testament  but the people who invented him.  

)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))0)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

 There is a terrific TV play called "God On Trial" .It is set in Auschwitz. A group of men who know they will die in the morning  put god on trial . The crime is breaking the  Abrahamic  covenant because  he allowed the holocaust to take place.

"God on Trial is a 2008 British television play written by Frank Cottrell Boyce, starring Antony Sher, Rupert Graves and Jack Shepherd. The play takes place in Auschwitz during World War II. The Jewish prisoners put God on trial in absentia for abandoning the Jewish people. The question is whether God has broken his covenant with the Jewish people by allowing the Germans to commit genocide.[1] It was produced and shown by the BBC on 3 September 2008. Production was supported by PBS, which screened the play as part of its Masterpiece anthology.  "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_on_Trial
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#14

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-16-2019, 07:44 AM)grympy Wrote: There is a terrific TV play called "God On Trial" .It is set in Auschwitz. A group of men who know they will die in the morning  put god on trial . The crime is breaking the  Abrahamic  covenant because  he allowed the holocaust to take place.

"God on Trial is a 2008 British television play written by Frank Cottrell Boyce, starring Antony Sher, Rupert Graves and Jack Shepherd. The play takes place in Auschwitz during World War II. The Jewish prisoners put God on trial in absentia for abandoning the Jewish people. The question is whether God has broken his covenant with the Jewish people by allowing the Germans to commit genocide.[1] It was produced and shown by the BBC on 3 September 2008. Production was supported by PBS, which screened the play as part of its Masterpiece anthology.  "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_on_Trial

Nothing is quite so clarifying, regardless of one's religious proclivities, as personal tragedy, particularly ultimate ones such as your own sense of abandonment at some key inflection point in life.

Even though my evangelical upbringing made questioning, much less accusing god completely taboo, the proximate cause of my collapse of faith was the prolonged and baroque suffering of my second wife, culminating in her eventual death; this, on the heels of losing my first wife to mental illness, which was in some ways, even worse.

Because my religion of origin was authoritarian, I had instinctively "hoarded my poker chips", so to speak, reserving any "asks" of god to absolute "must haves". I did not ask god to find my car keys, or get me good parking spaces, or find me a job, or to bless the food I ate. All I really insisted on was that if he gave me the heavy responsibility of nurturing and protecting the spiritual and existential well-being of my loved ones, was that he fulfill his promises to bless the righteous and confound the wicked, concerning at least those things manifestly not in my control. My wife wasn't suffering because of some failure on my part, or on hers.

Of course, once the veneer of religious faith fell away, LOTS of unthinkable things became thinkable, and today my reasons for lack of belief in god have literally nothing to do with feeling betrayed or disappointed by god or even by life. I simply do not afford belief to the unsubstantiated (or, indeed, the unsubstaniatABLE). There is no emotion in it anymore. But for those whose entire sense of community and belonging comes from their faith, the bonds of religious faith are strong, and not casually broken. Something must happen to utterly violate the imaginary contract between a person and their god, to make them even question it, much less abandon it.

That is why I don't expect even the most intellectually rigorous and logically airtight argument against god or faith to have any effect on devout, culturally committed theists. It certainly never did on me, and I'm even personally given to intellectually sound argumentation. The most one can do with such arguments is plant seeds that might grow someday in the midst of adversity, I'm sorry to say.
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#15

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Why do Christians trust YHWH?  Because they're indoctrinated and brainwashed, that's why.   Why do they even believe this mythical being exists? That's the real question.  Well, hahaha,  I guess I just answered my own question....because they're indoctrinated and brainwashed.
                                                         T4618
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#16

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Probably important to remember that xtians took another religion's bullshit, adopted it as their own, and then wrote an absurd "bridge" between it and their own silliness.  They have spent the last 2 millennia trying to reconcile the contradictions but at least it gives them something to do.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#17

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-30-2018, 01:07 PM)RobbyPants Wrote: I posted this back at TTA in the day, but I wanted to bring it over:


So, according to the Bible, YHWH is the source of all of our morality. 

So no.. God is the source of all righteousness. not morality
The difference? morality is a word man has appropriated to show the level of goodness we have by living by a lists of laws we deem right. morality says by our works we should be judge righteous. because we lower the bar f right and wrong so low almost everyone can cross it (if they are a good person)

Righteousness is not a system based on works. (doing good things or bad) Why? because we can never been good enough therefore we must seek another way to obtain righteousness. (Righteousness says, one can only be found right before God with atonement Christ offers though the love we have for him and share with one another.) Righteousness is not a works based but Agape' love based system of "morality." (for the lack of a common word)

Quote:He tells us not to kill, steal, rape lie, or covet, yet, he frequently breaks his own rules. He's on record for murdering the crap out of lots of people. Even children! So, you ask an apologist "what the shit?" and they'll say something to the effect of "God has no moral imperative not to kill us" or "those rules are for us, not God" or "who are you to question the Almighty!?"
He says not to murder. meaning one can not take life without permission. A righteousness man may not covet and take. steal for the sake of wanting what another has. there are righteous examples of taking what others have and redistributing it. again the lies we are forbidden from are the ones for our gain.. Do you see a pattern here? it is when we lie when we steal when we rape and murder for our own gain for our own purposes that these become sin.

So with permission is it ok to do these things? In the OT I think I found where God commanded each and every commandment broken at one point or another. why? because the rules he made do not bind the creator. Meaning if the rules included God then God would not be the almighty He claimed to be. it would be the one who set those rules even God could not break.

As Alpha and Omega he is the first and the last. meaning it all starts with him and he has to check with no one or nothing thing as all things end with his word on the matter. there is no greater authority.

So here again we have proof that being righteous is being aligned with God not following a list of some crap moral standard.

So does this mean you can go out and rape and steal? sure just show me in the bible where God gave you authority as he did the israelites when they where commissioned to destroy rape pillage and steal.

Know that their specific command was time sensitive it pertained to a specific people at a specific time and on a specific event. once that war or raid was complete. the command was rescinded.
And it only applied to the OT jws in that moment as well.

For the christian we have the opsite in that we are to forgive as we want to be forgiven and we are to love each other as we wish to be loved. It is hard to justify stealing rape and murder under this new covenant.

Quote:Fair enough, I suppose (not really), but how do you know God isn't lying at any given time?
Because his word is broken down into a series of step or small promises. once you abc he offers 123. and these build up over time. Over a life time of following God I have yet to see a lie materialize. so How doI know God is not lying at any given moment? experience with God and receiving what I have been promised when I do what he asks shows this.

So what if he lies in the end? I would say he is entitled to take back everything at any moment. I live well beyond my ability and or means would normally allow and if not for God and all that he has done for me I would not be here for sure. So if he simply wants everything back and leave me with nothing I still have much to be thank for because he allowed me almost 30 years of one of the best life's I never knew I would have wanted.

That said If I live under God another 20 or 30 years like this (better than most kings of the OT/I got air conditioning, food from around the world, Ice, A seriously awesome home theater, horseless carriages, Fly around the world, access to the complete archive/knowledge of man at my finger tips, and people to work for me.. (to live like a king for 70 or 80 years) then be told there is no heaven or hell it's just all empty space, then so what. I went out on top. And I lived as a better person for it. Not one tied to lists and rules but the freedom found in Christianity.

Quote:He has no moral imperative to tell the truth, the rules about lying don't apply to him, and hey, who are we to question him? The apologetics are pretty clear on this.

wft are you talking about 1 thess 5:21 "Question all things and hold on to what is Good!" Paul is giving a direct command to the people in thessalonica to intentionally question ALL Doctrine and then hold on to what is good. he did not say question the questionable, he say question all thing which include the foundational.

The only people who fear questions are those who serve religion over God. meaning they worship tradition and the method of worship over worshiping God.

True worship does not fear questions.
It encourages them, which is why I am here.

Quote:So, how does a Christian trust any single word written in the Bible or allegedly said by God? Any traits they give him (like holding to his covenants) are all told to us... by God. How do we know he holds his covenants?


So, Christians: how can you trust God?

It take a mustard seed's worth of faith. If you can manage to gather up the smallest amount of faith in God IE the holy Spirit he will remove mountains of doubt. There is a process where all you must do is actively ask seek and knock for the Holy Spirit and God promises to show up.

However if/when he shows up you may not recognise God as God. because more often than not we have an idea of God that he will refuse to support. Rather what God offers is an opportunity for you to let go this idea and with him build a better understanding.

Over time trust is earned. you will find yourself in situations where only God can get you out. Go through enough of these and you will quickly find out if God was not trust worthy you would have been chopped up fed to the wolves along ago.
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#18

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Drich -

I think we all realize that Christianity is a series of mutually supporting assumptions. We are critiquing if one of those assumptions pertains to the real world in any verifiable way. It doesn't.

You need faith bigger than a mustard seed to swallow the whole Christian system. Doubts are virtuous but faith is not, given the real world. Doubts should not be removed at all.
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#19

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-16-2019, 07:24 PM)Alan V Wrote: Drich -

I think we all realize that Christianity is a series of mutually supporting assumptions.  We are critiquing if one of those assumptions pertains to the real world in any verifiable way.  It doesn't.

You need faith bigger than a mustard seed to swallow the whole Christian system.  And we think doubts are much more virtuous than faith, and should not be removed at all.

Nice effort, Alan. Dritch's post was so incoherent I honestly didn't know where to start with it.

I've come to see the "faith of a mustard seed" thing as basically an incitement to suspend disbelief, if only a little. It is offered up exactly because many people WANT to believe god has them in their back pocket and that as a result, everything will be okay. If you combine this desire for a safe, stable, predictable, comprehensible, fair existence with even a provisional acceptance of an asserted belief-system that promises such things, then there's a good chance that one will reach a tipping point of commitment to it. It's very similar to how some can be pulled into a conspiracy theory by believing just a little of it might be true, and doubting just a little what your eyes and ears and prior knowledge tell you. And then starting to see connections based on confirmation bias and need or desire.

I see another parallel in typical notions of romantic love. One can imagine all sorts of wonderful experiences one could have with the "right" partner, and sees the public aspect of so many people's relationships looking like that fantasy, such that hope keeps triumphing over experience. Special relationships only work -- even provisionally -- when one gives back their projections and greatly lowers their expectations and recognizes that no matter how charming / beautiful / sexy the love object, they are just another human being with their own particular set of hang ups, hot buttons, neuroses, phobias, and, yes, virtues. They will at times fail and disappoint you. And you are no better. When you let go of the fantasy narrative you can hope to be left with something you can actually work with and get value from. It's the same with a religious view of life; it promises life will be fair and make sense, at least in some ultimate sense, so that you don't have to truly accept that life is nothing more than a series of events, some that you will like and understand, some that you will not.

I of course come at it from the opposite direction. I was fully bought into all that religious presuppositionalism from a very young age, and disabused of it only by repeatedly barking my shins on the shoals of experienced reality in sufficiently painful ways. The center did not hold, and the rest is history.
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#20

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-16-2019, 05:37 PM)Drich Wrote: God is the source of all righteousness.


I don't care if you claim your god is the source of all lipstick, you need to provide unbiased evidence your deity exists before you write a wall of text.
                                                         T4618
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#21

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Thanks Alan. I made it about 25% of the way through Drich's word salad that I couldn't even. It's just playing fast and loose with definitions to try and cobble something "good" out of that whole morass.
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#22

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
Dripshit is ever-present to serve as a bad example.

In that, he far surpasses his 'god' who is nowhere to be found.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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#23

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-16-2019, 05:37 PM)Drich Wrote: So no.. God is the source of all righteousness. not morality
The difference? morality is a word man has appropriated to show the level of goodness we have by living by a lists of laws we deem right. morality says by our works we should be judge righteous. because we lower the bar f right and wrong so low almost everyone can cross it (if they are a good person)

Righteousness is not a system based on works. (doing good things or bad) Why? because we can never been good enough therefore we must seek another way to obtain righteousness. (Righteousness says, one can only be found right before God with atonement Christ offers though the love we have for him and share with one another.) Righteousness is not a works based but Agape' love based system of "morality." (for the lack of a common word)

Wrong again. 
"right·eous·ness
/ˈrīCHəsnəs/

noun

  1. the quality of being morally right or justifiable.
Quote:He says not to murder. meaning one can not take life without permission. A righteousness man may not covet and take. steal for the sake of wanting what another has. there are righteous examples of taking what others have and redistributing it. again the lies we are forbidden from are the ones for our gain.. Do you see a pattern here? it is when we lie when we steal when we rape and murder for our own gain for our own purposes that these become sin.

So then genius, if you do it for someone else's gain it's ok ? LMAO

Quote:So here again we have proof that being righteous is being aligned with God not following a list of some crap moral standard.

That's not "proof" of anything. It's your twisted ignorant interpretation that virtually NO Christian would agree with. 

Quote:So does this mean you can go out and rape and steal? sure just show me in the bible where God gave you authority as he did the israelites when they where commissioned to destroy rape pillage and steal.

He (since he doesn't even exist) gave them nothing. They gave it to themselves, and then wrote a book claiming it was given to them. You are SO gullible. 

Quote:Know that their specific command was time sensitive it pertained to a specific people at a specific time and on a specific event. once that war or raid was complete. the command was rescinded.
And it only applied to the OT jws in that moment as well.

The text says nothing of the sort. Anywhere. Nice try. Fail again. 

Quote:Fair enough, I suppose (not really), but how do you know God isn't lying at any given time?

Because he doesn't exist. 

Bla bla bla.
Get lost. Stop this spamming and preaching and STEALING space on a forum that was set up for the atheist community. You're free-loading and squatting. What a loser. 

Unbelievable that someone would WASTE their life on all that crap.
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#24

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
(09-16-2019, 05:37 PM)Drich Wrote: So no.. God is the source of all righteousness. not morality...

[massive snip]


...Go through enough of these and you will quickly find out if God was not trust worthy you would have been chopped up fed to the wolves along ago.

I just couldn't muster the will to wade through this tedious farrago of asinine bullshit.     Fuck me sideways!
I'm a creationist;   I believe that man created God.
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#25

Why do Christians trust YHWH?
You could invest in a pair of these.

[Image: 294294_ts.jpg]


Useful when drippy is around.
Robert G. Ingersoll : “No man with a sense of humor ever founded a religion.”
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