The "myth" of the dying church

[Minimalist]

Seems to me that you do nothing but quote that useless pile of shit. 

If I felt like going back to AF I'm sure I could find plenty of examples but neither you nor your god are worth any effort.

[brewerb]

Blah, blah, blah, ............



Lying to themselves feels soooooooo good!

[Fireball]

Blah, blah, blah, ............



Lying to themselves feels soooooooo good!

But it's shit before it goes into the horse, with religion.

[Fireball]

Seems to me that you do nothing but quote that useless pile of shit. 

If I felt like going back to AF I'm sure I could find plenty of examples but neither you nor your god are worth any effort.

Let's see how long the pigeon chess games last over here, in the "kinder, gentler" site.

[Minimalist]

[brewerb]

Blah, blah, blah, ............



Lying to themselves feels soooooooo good!

But it's shit before it goes into the horse, with religion.

Unfortunately in the past (and sometimes now) it's not been recognized as shit. Kinda like bloodletting.

[Inkubus]

Do you guys understand how data is sourced and how it is rated?

Primary, secondary, tertiary source materials?

Drich. Either you've been using this material for years, or you really need to try it now.

Chill Winston.

[Inkubus]

Bollocks. Christianity is thriving in this country I'll have you know!

And these are the cheaper one's, if you're in the market for something a bit more posh then they will very likely be listed buildings and that means you can do fuck all with them. And there are thousands of them.
Now what happens when Christianity in this country gasps its rattling last breath? What do we do with the fucking things,
some legacy eh?

[Minimalist]

They look like fixer-uppers.  This jesus, I take it, was one suckass carpenter!

[Free]

This should be an easy enough question to answer especially after the next census has been taken.

As it stands 74% in the Us belong to the church.. 74% of 350ish million people belong to God in some form or fashion of thier own choosing. and 6% represent the 'others.'

To be intellectually honest, 75% do claim to be Christian. This is down from 85% in 1990, lower than 81.6% in 2001, indicating a steady decline.

However, despite that 75% claim to be Christian, only 41% claim to attend church regularly. Obviously this has also declined in recent decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani...attendance

There is also correlative data that shows that the Bible Belt states have the highest concentration of people claiming to be Christian and attending church. Another interesting fact about the Bible Belt states is that they are all listed as among the top 15 poorest states in the USA, as well as all listed among the least educated states in the USA. One other, perhaps unrelated fact is, from a political position they are all Republican strongholds.

This would seem to suggest that wherever Christianity flourishes, so does poverty and so does ignorance.

https://www.fcnl.org/updates/top-10-poor...e-u-s-1630

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/the-10-m...-2018.html

Comments?

[Minimalist]

Ooh, ooh.  I know what they are doing when they aren't in fucking church!

https://www.christiantoday.com/article/a.../42045.htm

America's Bible Belt states indulge in more online porn than other less religious states

Researchers found that states identified as religiously conservative and politically conservative were indulging in more online pornography than other more liberal states.
Religiously conservative states had higher proportions of searches for generalised sex terms, while politically conservative states were more likely to use specific terms like "free porn" or "xxx".
"Across two separate years, and controlling for demographic variables, we observed moderate-to-large positive associations between: greater proportions of state-level religiosity and general web searching for sexual content and greater proportions of state-level conservatism and image-specific searching for sex," said the study authors.
They concluded that higher degrees of sexual restriction may be a contributing factor in the findings.

It must have killed "christiantoday.com" to have to write that!

[Mathilda]

Also take note that I have been 'warned' hand cuffed here so as to play nice. when in all your years has the Atheist web site big britches boss told a christian to play nce and to dial it back "we don't fight things out here, this is more of a coffee shop library place?"

I wasn't warning you. I meant it be a helpful comment. I was just making sure you understood that this is a different forum with its own culture, that's all because I know that it's easy to conflate the two forums. It's up to you how you act here.

[Mathilda]

The church of england failed because people are not stupid.

Quote of the week

[SYZ]

...In fact i got two pages of negative responses talking about my arrogance and presumption, then they would try and call the shot that would take me out and send me home running.

I'll give you the courtesy of responding again to your comments, but you need to be made aware that
the majority of your comments are inflammatory, disingenuous, and seriously skewed.  The fact that
there were two pages of negative comments criticising your alleged arrogance should've told you
something—or are you one of those people who mistakenly reckon the whole world is out to get them?
You also seem to have not understood that any/all atheist forums will—naturally—treat your comments
as a theist with a far higher degree of review than any non-religious-type forum.  Because you make so
many claims about a supernatural entity and paranormal phenomena, you also need to provide so much
more viable evidence supporting those claims—but which you don't.

Also take note that I have been 'warned' hand cuffed here so as to play nice.

Yes, that's perfectly understandable.  As a new member you should respect our forum rules.  Too many
of your comments come across as unduly aggressive.  You need to get to know the members here before
throwing around personal insults—as you have already.

Maybe, just maybe I do have some things you've never heard before...

Uh... not so mate.  I'm more than old enough to be your grandfather, and I can assure you that I've seen
everything that the world has to offer, both good and bad.  There's certainly nothing new you can tell me,
particularly as a you're a zealous Christian with an inherently biassed opinion of both religion and world affairs.

Not only that aside from point out the church exist outside of the Sunday morning meeting, where I even mentioned God or the bible? how then can you accuse me of proselytising? You understand to proselytize is to preach the word of God... so again show me where I was preaching.

You've mentioned "God" in various connections in numerous posts—I just checked.  Lying in your defence
won't win you any friends that's for sure.  And as far as proselytising goes...

You've said that your "primary focus is with atheists and providing them with the truth and providing clarity
so they can make informed decisions about God" and that you've been "answering questions about God and
the bible on line since 2008".

That, matey, IS proselytising.

    

[Fireball]

Also take note that I have been 'warned' hand cuffed here so as to play nice. when in all your years has the Atheist web site big britches boss told a christian to play nce and to dial it back "we don't fight things out here, this is more of a coffee shop library place?"

I wasn't warning you. I meant it be a helpful comment. I was just making sure you understood that this is a different forum with its own culture, that's all because I know that it's easy to conflate the two forums. It's up to you how you act here.

I took that as a little reminder of the differences in the two fora. Leave it to Mr Martyr® to make it all about him.

[Drich]

Do you guys understand how data is sourced and how it is rated?

Primary, secondary, tertiary source materials?

The US census is the trump card to anything else anyone of you can produce as it is the official number the united states government officially recognizes as the absolute standard. so it would be a primary source...

Now a graph or some BS extrapolation from a news paper or the like describing what the census said would be a secondary source and if ever the two sources conflict the secondary source material is discarded for the primary..

Then you have tertiary sources.. this is almost garbage/no point in quoting as this is often personal conjecture and or speculation based.

Most of you are blindly quoting tertiary material as if it means something. I have several times given you my source as the us census and if any of you people cared to look it up you would find a neat spread sheet:

Table 75. Self-Described Religious Identification of Adult Population: 1990, 2001 and 2008
[In thousands (175,440 represents 175,440,000). The methodology of the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) 2008 replicated that used in previous surveys. The three surveys are based on random-digit-dialing telephone surveys of residential households in the continental U.S.A (48 states): 54,461 interviews in 2008, 50,281 in 2001, and 113,723 in 1990. Respondents were asked to describe themselves in terms of religion with an open-ended question. Interviewers did not prompt or offer a suggested list of potential answers. Moreover, the self-description of respondents was not based on whether established religious bodies, institutions, churches, mosques or synagogues considered them to be members. Instead, the surveys sought to determine whether the respondents regarded themselves as adherents of a religious community. Subjective rather than objective standards of religious identification were tapped by the surveys]
Religious Group       1990        2001        2008
 
Adult population, total \1 175,440 207,983 228,182
 
Christian, total \2 151,225 159,514 173,402
Catholic 46,004 50,873 57,199
Baptist 33,964 33,820 36,148
Protestant-no denomination supplied 17,214 4,647 5,187
Methodist/Wesleyan 14,174 14,039 11,366
Lutheran 9,110 9,580 8,674
Christian-no denomination supplied 8,073 14,190 16,834
Presbyterian 4,985 5,596 4,723
Pentecostal/Charismatic 3,116 4,407 5,416
Episcopalian/Anglican 3,043 3,451 2,405
Mormon/Latter-Day Saints 2,487 2,697 3,158
Churches of Christ 1,769 2,593 1,921
Jehovah's Witness 1,381 1,331 1,914
Seventh-Day Adventist 668 724 938
Assemblies of God 617 1,105 810
Holiness/Holy 610 569 352
Congregational/United Church of Christ 438 1,378 736
Church of the Nazarene 549 544 358
Church of God 590 943 663
Orthodox (Eastern) 502 645 824
Evangelical/Born Again \3 546 1,088 2,154
Mennonite 235 346 438
Christian Science 214 194 339
Church of the Brethren 206 358 231
Nondenominational \3 194 2,489 8,032
Disciples of Christ 144 492 263
Reformed/Dutch Reform 161 289 206
Apostolic/New Apostolic 117 254 970
Quaker 67 217 130
Christian Reform 40 79 381
Foursquare Gospel 28 70 116
Independent Christian Church 25 71 86
Other Christian \4 105 254 206
 Other Religions, total \2 5,853 7,740 8,796
Jewish 3,137 2,837 2,680
Muslim 527 1,104 1,349
Buddhist 404 1,082 1,189
Unitarian/Universalist 502 629 586
Hindu 227 766 582
Native American 47 103 186
Sikh 13 57 78
Wiccan 8 134 342
Pagan (NA) 140 340
Spiritualist (NA) 116 426
Other unclassified \4 991 774 1,030
 No Religion specified, total \2 14,331 29,481 34,169
Atheist (\5) 902 1,621
Agnostic \5 1,186 991 1,985
Humanist 29 49 90
No Religion 13,116 27,486 30,427
Other No Religion \4 (NA) 57 45
 Refused to reply to question 4,031 11,246 11,815
SYMBOL:
NA Not available.
FOOTNOTES:
\1 Refers to the total number of adults in all fifty states. All other figures are based on projections from surveys conducted in the continental United States (48 states).
\2 Includes other groups, not shown separately.
\3 Because of the subjective nature of replies to open-ended question, these categories are the most unstable as they do not refer to clearly identifiable denominations as much as underlying feelings about religion. Thus they may be the most subject to fluctuation over time.
\4 Estimates for subpopulations smaller than 75,000 adults are aggregated to minimize sampling errors.
\5 Atheist included in Agnostic.
Source: 1990 data, Barry A. Kosmin and Seymour P. Lachman, "One Nation Under God: Religion in Contemporary American Society, 1993"; 2001 data, Barry A. Kosmin and Ariela Keysar, Religion in A Free Market: Religious and Non-Religious Americans, Who, What, Why, Where, 2006; 2008 data, Institute for the Study of Secularism in Society and Culture, Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
For more information:
http://www.trincoll.edu/Academics/center...ve.aspx> and
www.AmericanReligionSurvey-ARIS.org
Internet Release Date: 09/30/2011


so the columns are three year spreads 1990 is the first then 2001 and then 2008
in 90 christian totaled 151,000,000 and in 2008 they totaled 173,000,000

now keep in mind the 228,000,000 is the total number of people out of 173,000,000 are christian which is about .75 or 75%

Just like uncle drich said.. why? because he does his research before he speaks and rarly does so from emotional want.

now from 1990 to 2008 the numbers are going up each time the census has been taken...
so your article your speculation... all wrong.

does that mean in 10 years something hasn't changed? no not at all, which is why I open my first post with letssee what the comming census has to say... but again the church ebbs and flows with the economy. the better things are.. the lower the church attendance.

In 2001 we had 9-11 and in 2008 we had the biggest market crash ever.. it would be interesting to see who is still going to God when the world is not at an end.

Your list of numbers makes little to no sense.  Try fixing that.

click on the link provided to see the original census spread sheet. I just cut and pasted what was there.

[Drich]

Do you guys understand how data is sourced and how it is rated?

Primary, secondary, tertiary source materials?

Drich. Either you've been using this material for years, or you really need to try it now.

Chill Winston.

well they are pushing to make cannabis legal for recreational use in fl now.. so maybe if and when..

[Drich]

This should be an easy enough question to answer especially after the next census has been taken.

As it stands 74% in the Us belong to the church.. 74% of 350ish million people belong to God in some form or fashion of thier own choosing. and 6% represent the 'others.'

To be intellectually honest, 75% do claim to be Christian. This is down from 85% in 1990, lower than 81.6% in 2001, indicating a steady decline.

However, despite that 75% claim to be Christian, only 41% claim to attend church regularly. Obviously this has also declined in recent decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani...attendance

There is also correlative data that shows that the Bible Belt states have the highest concentration of people claiming to be Christian and attending church. Another interesting fact about the Bible Belt states is that they are all listed as among the top 15 poorest states in the USA, as well as all listed among the least educated states in the USA. One other, perhaps unrelated fact is, from a political position they are all Republican strongholds.

This would seem to suggest that wherever Christianity flourishes, so does poverty and so does ignorance.

https://www.fcnl.org/updates/top-10-poor...e-u-s-1630

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/the-10-m...-2018.html

Comments?

to be intellectually honest and accurate we AGAIN turn to the US census which AGAIN is a primary source and trump secondary sources if and when they conflict.. Secondary sources like IDK a news report a mag article or a tetery source like a wiki page..

IE when the census says the number are not declining then the other sources are simply wrong hence intellectually honest AND accurate. from the US census report:

 Table 75. Self-Described Religious Identification of Adult Population: 1990, 2001 and 2008
[In thousands (175,440 represents 175,440,000). The methodology of the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) 2008 replicated that used in previous surveys. The three surveys are based on random-digit-dialing telephone surveys of residential households in the continental U.S.A (48 states): 54,461 interviews in 2008, 50,281 in 2001, and 113,723 in 1990. Respondents were asked to describe themselves in terms of religion with an open-ended question. Interviewers did not prompt or offer a suggested list of potential answers. Moreover, the self-description of respondents was not based on whether established religious bodies, institutions, churches, mosques or synagogues considered them to be members. Instead, the surveys sought to determine whether the respondents regarded themselves as adherents of a religious community. Subjective rather than objective standards of religious identification were tapped by the surveys]
Religious Group
1990
2001
2008
    Adult population, total \1
175,440,000 in 1990
207,983,000 in 2001
228,182,000 in 2008

https://www.census.gov/library/publicati...ation.html

click on line item 75

Can you see the INCREASE and not DECREASE? Despite how your sources manipulated the numbers the official hard count tells a completely different story..

This is why you peers have moved on to speaking about how christianity is decreasing world wide in an attempt to move the goal posts and save face.

[Drich]

The church of england failed because people are not stupid.

Quote of the week

This is true with all religion. As god does not blindly support all religion. People know when a preacher is full of bs and when the presences of God stands with a church.

[Free]

This should be an easy enough question to answer especially after the next census has been taken.

As it stands 74% in the Us belong to the church.. 74% of 350ish million people belong to God in some form or fashion of thier own choosing. and 6% represent the 'others.'

To be intellectually honest, 75% do claim to be Christian. This is down from 85% in 1990, lower than 81.6% in 2001, indicating a steady decline.

However, despite that 75% claim to be Christian, only 41% claim to attend church regularly. Obviously this has also declined in recent decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani...attendance

There is also correlative data that shows that the Bible Belt states have the highest concentration of people claiming to be Christian and attending church. Another interesting fact about the Bible Belt states is that they are all listed as among the top 15 poorest states in the USA, as well as all listed among the least educated states in the USA. One other, perhaps unrelated fact is, from a political position they are all Republican strongholds.

This would seem to suggest that wherever Christianity flourishes, so does poverty and so does ignorance.

https://www.fcnl.org/updates/top-10-poor...e-u-s-1630

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/the-10-m...-2018.html

Comments?

to be intellectually honest and accurate we AGAIN turn to the US census which AGAIN is a primary source and trump secondary sources if and when they conflict.. Secondary sources like IDK a news report a mag article or a tetery source like a wiki page..

IE when the census says the number are not declining then the other sources are simply wrong hence intellectually honest AND accurate. from the US census report:

 Table 75. Self-Described Religious Identification of Adult Population: 1990, 2001 and 2008
[In thousands (175,440 represents 175,440,000). The methodology of the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) 2008 replicated that used in previous surveys. The three surveys are based on random-digit-dialing telephone surveys of residential households in the continental U.S.A (48 states): 54,461 interviews in 2008, 50,281 in 2001, and 113,723 in 1990. Respondents were asked to describe themselves in terms of religion with an open-ended question. Interviewers did not prompt or offer a suggested list of potential answers. Moreover, the self-description of respondents was not based on whether established religious bodies, institutions, churches, mosques or synagogues considered them to be members. Instead, the surveys sought to determine whether the respondents regarded themselves as adherents of a religious community. Subjective rather than objective standards of religious identification were tapped by the surveys]
Religious Group
1990
2001
2008
    Adult population, total \1
175,440,000 in 1990
207,983,000 in 2001
228,182,000 in 2008

https://www.census.gov/library/publicati...ation.html

click on line item 75

Can you see the INCREASE and not DECREASE? Despite how your sources manipulated the numbers the official hard count tells a completely different story..

This is why you peers have moved on to speaking about how christianity is decreasing world wide in an attempt to move the goal posts and save face.

I do see the increase in population, and of course along with it there will be an increase in religious affiliation. However, my point was about percentages, not about how the Christian population increases with the general population.

Here are the stats according to your own link:

In 1990 the adult population was 175,440,000
In 1990 the Christian population was  151,325,000

Which is 86.9 %

In 2008 the adult population was 228,182,000
In 2008 the Christian population was 173,402,000

Which is 75.8 %

A decrease of a full 11%

These statistics are wholly in agreement with my previous post.

Therefore yes, with all statistics considered, it indicates that Christian affiliation is on the decline. It by no means whatsoever indicates an increase. Just because the Christian population increases with the general population does not mean that Christian affiliation is increasing. It's actually decreasing. 

Between 1990 and 2008, a full 11% of the general population no longer identified as Christian.

Also, according to the well respected research organization called PEW Research the percentage today is now at only 70.6%, indicating a continuing trend of decline.

It's all about the percentages, and not the population.

The truth is that people are getting more educated as education conditions the mind to better rationalize and reason more effectively. Now, people are emerging from a time where 'belief' was acceptable, and moving towards a state of confirmation of fact. And they simply don't want to believe in talking snakes any more because they see it for what it is; a ridiculous tall-tale.

In the next 20 years, the older generation born between 1940 and 1960 will have mostly died off. That's when the 70.6% will drop well below 50% by 2040. The older folks were born during a time when religion was the rule of the day, but as soon as you get into the mid 1960s is when the declination of religious beliefs kicks into high gear. Even the young people of today look at religious people with a blank stare because they think they are out of their minds.

Comments?

[Drich]

I'll give you the courtesy of responding again to your comments,

 should i feel honored or blessed that someone such as yourself would grace me with such a luxury!

 but you need to be made aware that

the majority of your comments are inflammatory,

i would say 1/3 could be considered as such if and only if you presume to know better than me. Meaning if you consider yourself an authority on something you claim does not exist and know all of it's ins and outs despite not acknowledging anything about this deity.. then yes you might take offense when I rightfully correct you as my answers on documented canonical fact. while any objection can only e based in objective speculation if you do indeed believe God cannot exist.

disingenuous,

This is a feeling, based on nothing more than a stereotype. I am and pledge to be 100% genuous. in all things pertaining to God or the bible. I might have some fun on the side, but I am here for a specific purpose.

and seriously skewed.

non sequitur. your logic of painting me as singular biased, does not follow because we are all skewed no matter what we believe, as belief and the idea that you have a world view skews you against everything else. lest you pretend there are those floating around with completely empty minds waiting to be filled. naw.. all are indoctrinated to one degree or another. To point this out in me in unfair and in fact an example of a disingenuous effort to spoil your fellow atheist perceptions. 
My world view is simply different not illegal or deadly.

The fact that
there were two pages of negative comments criticising your alleged arrogance should've told you
something—or are you one of those people who mistakenly reckon the whole world is out to get them?

This was 8 years ago, and the point you missed is I am all that remains. in essence I have beaten broken and or just chased off most if not all of my detractors. Again a month ago I even asked if this is what happened other wise explain to me where everyone had went. As I looked down the list of things the members said would defeat me and send me home crying, where indeed used, and where explained away or out right defeated. Out of that thread spawned 4 other with lists of question which where all answered in very short order, then all was left was ad hoc insults.
which I used to manipulate the remaining members into a bit of a pickle showing them their own hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty.. Because I earnestly wanted to know where all the people who wanted to discuss religion and God went. I called their behavior and told them what I was expecting almost down to the member and how they would behave, because of how predictable they had all become. that no one was interested in a honest and open debate any more.

I made a vow to not personally humiliate members anymore if they could see their way back to discussing points. and we actually have a 'soft rest' there now. Then someone told me that everyone from there went here. So i joined. same rules apply. I will only provide a basic structured answer and not go after people Ie kick in teeth..

You also seem to have not understood that any/all atheist forums will—naturally—treat your comments
as a theist with a far higher degree of review than any non-religious-type forum.

uhhh... yeah I found this to be true after 11 years of doing this very thing.

Because you make so
many claims about a supernatural entity and paranormal phenomena, you also need to provide so much
more viable evidence supporting those claims—but which you don't.

we haven't even got started yet!   You 'proof' guys better brush up on your arguements that old stand by proof proof proof chant does not work any more..

Also take note that I have been 'warned' hand cuffed here so as to play nice.

Yes, that's perfectly understandable.  As a new member you should respect our forum rules. 

 
I have never broken any rules, ask Chas.. I am typically thrown out of a atheist web site because the atheist member threaten to leave if they do not get rid of me. what was the last one.. Oh I was removed from the last one because 8 years earlier I was banned under the same screen name and under the same avatar, but they allowed me back in and after a few weeks they said the ban was perminate. and without breaking a rule the ousted me. why did they do it the first time? A member asked me what I believed about God and I told him and then reported me for proselytising.
In AF there have been several meetings and because I do not break the rules they have graciously allowed me to stay, even after 60 pages of members threatening to quite and stop funding the page and apparently moving here. Those guys are beyond fair

Too many

of your comments come across as unduly aggressive.

I just don't sugar coat things. i do not mean to offend but if I do I generally will not loose sleep over it. I am not the typical christian. I don't like those traditions I hate playing those games. however I found God and he still affords me the same grace for being me as those pretending to be something opposite of me. God is not stupid. pretending to be nice is not fooling anyone but ourselves. I want to be treated directly and honestly with no bull shit so i treat you guys the same way.

 You need to get to know the members here before
throwing around personal insults—as you have already.

IDK if you can tell but just reading one or two posts... most people here already know me and I them as most retain their screen names. Again been at this for 11 years and I actually like quit a few members here, even if you where not informed of my knowledge of them I do indeed know most of you.

Maybe, just maybe I do have some things you've never heard before...

Uh... not so mate.

 oh, man this is going to be fun! Have you ever heard anyone reconciling all of the 7 day creation with the complete big bang theory and evolution? I can and have with out changing a word of either origins narratives. meaning I can combine both all of what science has to say and their time lines with an untouched version of genesis 1-4. not only that this reading also clears up all of the supposed contradictions. you know... who did adam's children marry... where did the city of nod come from that cain fled to.. ect..

This all in the very first three chapters of the bible.. If this has escaped you then what else are you obliviously ignorant of?

Again without changing a single word of genesis as it is written in the holy bible and without changing a word of the 'science.'

 I'm more than old enough to be your grandfather, and I can assure you that I've seen

everything that the world has to offer, both good and bad.

Here's the thing.. I am one of the 'foolish' things/people God has chosen to use to upset and confound the wise and learned of this world. and despite your age... God is a little bit wiser and older.. less you want to attribute this monumental assimilation of theory of evolution into the creation narrative to me personally. which would mean your age and wisdom is not the golden ticket you thought it was... So either I was given this knowledge by someone wiser.. or i am simply idk smarter.. (I'm personally going with the whole messenger thing/I was given this information as that is how i remember it.)

 There's certainly nothing new you can tell me,

what about the christianity of the bible is not a rules based religion, that it has nothing to do with morality or free will?
has that little bit escaped you as well?

particularly as a you're a zealous Christian with an inherently biassed opinion of both religion and world affairs.

again old hat.. this is a non sequitur.. as I can say the same about you. particularly as a you're a zealous Non-Christian with an inherently biassed opinion of both religion and world affairs.
This is true about everyone. this does not follow if you are trying to show a separation between me and everyone else who can carry a thought in his own head. because again this is true about everyone.

Not only that aside from point out the church exist outside of the Sunday morning meeting, where I even mentioned God or the bible? how then can you accuse me of proselytising? You understand to proselytize is to preach the word of God... so again show me where I was preaching.

You've mentioned "God" in various connections in numerous posts—I just checked.  Lying in your defence
won't win you any friends that's for sure.  And as far as proselytising goes...

then please provide a quote or link. or am I supposed to simply take your word. you made an accusation i am asking you to provide proof.. you know that which demand to know or acknowledge God.. I simply need to know that you are not just making things up as you go. as i have picked my words carefully.

You've said that your "primary focus is with atheists and providing them with the truth and providing clarity
so they can make informed decisions about God" and that you've been "answering questions about God and
the bible on line since 2008".

That, matey, IS proselytising.

    

survey says!


here is the actual defination.
pros·e·lyt·ize
/ˈpräs(ə)ləˌtīz/
[/url]undefinedLearn to pronounce
[url=https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS743US744&q=how+to+pronounce+proselytize&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRoyy3w8sc9YSmTSWtOXmPU4-INKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLnYglJLcoV4pfi5eIuKMovTs2pLMmsSrViUWJKzeNZxCqTkV-uUJKvAJTLywfqS1VAUgUAxiWwkWEAAAA&pron_lang=en&pron_country=us&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwia1JS3yvPjAhURhOAKHaEnCYoQ3eEDMAB6BAgFEAg]
verb
gerund or present participle: proselytising

1. convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
   "the program did have a tremendous evangelical effect, proselytizing many"
   synonyms:
   evangelize, convert, seek/make converts, bring to God/Christ, bring into the fold, spread the gospel/word (to), propagandize, preach (to), win over, recruit; 
   brainwash
   "I'm not here to proselytize"
   • advocate or promote (a belief or course of action).
     "Davis wanted to share his concept and proselytize his ideas"
     synonyms:
     promote, present, spread, proclaim, peddle, propound, preach, back, urge, suggest, support, advocate, endorse, champion, sponsor, espouse, advance, further, assist, aid, help, contribute to, foster, boost
     "they are preoccupied with proselytizing a liberal view"
     

again old sport, my task is to inform you with the truth and have you make your own choice... make no mistake here I do not care what you believe. I promise not to loose sleep tonight no matter what you wind up doing. i just want to choose based off accurate information, and not the crap group think atheists are selling.

[Minimalist]

I wasn't warning you.

Drippy thinks everyone is out to get him and his stupid fucking god.  A real persecution complex.

In my case he is right but that does not apply to everyone.

[Cheerful Charlie]

Over the last 20 years or so, Christianity in the US has been sagging. Gallup polls demonstrate the rise in people who no longer believe in God. 10% no longer believe in God or a Universal spirit.

However, the existence of God is a proposition that does not rely on how many people believe in God. What Drich is doing here is using the "bandwagon" argument. Which is no argument. That the overwhelming majority of people in the Middle East are Moslems does not demonsrate God exists, the Quran is true or Mohammad was really a prophet. The fact that 70% of Americans remain theists and Christians likewise demonstrates nothing.

We just went through all of this with Imabeliever. What evidence, hard, good, obvious evidence is there for God. That is all that matters. Imabeliever for all his bluster had nothing for us.

Then we have the opposite problem, the claims made about God create so many problems, free will vs omniscience, the problem of evil and more, that seem to demonstrate God as defined by Christians cannot exist. If Drich is here to demonstrate God is a proposition worth taking seriously, Drich has to be prepared to deal with the problems that atheists use to demonstrate God is a failed concept.

Over to you, Drich.

[Drich]

To be intellectually honest, 75% do claim to be Christian. This is down from 85% in 1990, lower than 81.6% in 2001, indicating a steady decline.

However, despite that 75% claim to be Christian, only 41% claim to attend church regularly. Obviously this has also declined in recent decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani...attendance

There is also correlative data that shows that the Bible Belt states have the highest concentration of people claiming to be Christian and attending church. Another interesting fact about the Bible Belt states is that they are all listed as among the top 15 poorest states in the USA, as well as all listed among the least educated states in the USA. One other, perhaps unrelated fact is, from a political position they are all Republican strongholds.

This would seem to suggest that wherever Christianity flourishes, so does poverty and so does ignorance.

https://www.fcnl.org/updates/top-10-poor...e-u-s-1630

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/the-10-m...-2018.html

Comments?

to be intellectually honest and accurate we AGAIN turn to the US census which AGAIN is a primary source and trump secondary sources if and when they conflict.. Secondary sources like IDK a news report a mag article or a tetery source like a wiki page..

IE when the census says the number are not declining then the other sources are simply wrong hence intellectually honest AND accurate. from the US census report:

 Table 75. Self-Described Religious Identification of Adult Population: 1990, 2001 and 2008
[In thousands (175,440 represents 175,440,000). The methodology of the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) 2008 replicated that used in previous surveys. The three surveys are based on random-digit-dialing telephone surveys of residential households in the continental U.S.A (48 states): 54,461 interviews in 2008, 50,281 in 2001, and 113,723 in 1990. Respondents were asked to describe themselves in terms of religion with an open-ended question. Interviewers did not prompt or offer a suggested list of potential answers. Moreover, the self-description of respondents was not based on whether established religious bodies, institutions, churches, mosques or synagogues considered them to be members. Instead, the surveys sought to determine whether the respondents regarded themselves as adherents of a religious community. Subjective rather than objective standards of religious identification were tapped by the surveys]
Religious Group
1990
2001
2008
    Adult population, total \1
175,440,000 in 1990
207,983,000 in 2001
228,182,000 in 2008

https://www.census.gov/library/publicati...ation.html

click on line item 75

Can you see the INCREASE and not DECREASE? Despite how your sources manipulated the numbers the official hard count tells a completely different story..

This is why you peers have moved on to speaking about how christianity is decreasing world wide in an attempt to move the goal posts and save face.

I do see the increase in population, and of course along with it there will be an increase in religious affiliation. However, my point was about percentages, not about how the Christian population increases with the general population.

Here are the stats according to your own link:

In 1990 the adult population was 175,440,000
In 1990 the Christian population was  151,325,000

Which is 86.9 %

In 2008 the adult population was 228,182,000
In 2008 the Christian population was 173,402,000

Which is 75.8 %

A decrease of a full 11%

These statistics are wholly in agreement with my previous post.

Therefore yes, with all statistics considered, it indicates that Christian affiliation is on the decline. It by no means whatsoever indicates an increase. Just because the Christian population increases with the general population does not mean that Christian affiliation is increasing. It's actually decreasing. 

Between 1990 and 2008, a full 11% of the general population no longer identified as Christian.

Also, according to the well respected research organization called PEW Research the percentage today is now at only 70.6%, indicating a continuing trend of decline.

It's all about the percentages, and not the population.

The truth is that people are getting more educated as education conditions the mind to better rationalize and reason more effectively. Now, people are emerging from a time where 'belief' was acceptable, and moving towards a state of confirmation of fact. And they simply don't want to believe in talking snakes any more because they see it for what it is; a ridiculous tall-tale.

In the next 20 years, the older generation born between 1940 and 1960 will have mostly died off. That's when the 70.6% will drop well below 50% by 2040. The older folks were born during a time when religion was the rule of the day, but as soon as you get into the mid 1960s is when the declination of religious beliefs kicks into high gear. Even the young people of today look at religious people with a blank stare because they think they are out of their minds.

Comments?

wow... how dishonest are you???

Yes from 1990 your number are correct, but those number do not explain the total delt given.

WE HAD 3 Data points! not two.


    1990               2001            2008

 
Adult population, total 
 175,440,000  207,983,000  228,182,000
 
Christian, total
 151,225,000   159,514,000  173,402,000
      86.19%           76.69%         75.99%
So again between 90 and 01 was the major drop there has been very little to no (if you take in the margin of error) since 2001 to 2008 that is why there are three points of data here and not two. so as to give an accurate time frame as to when the decline in the church happened!

But you know that and decided to run with your BS numbers anyway just to try and fool lazy people into a false narrative about the church. This is disgusting behavior especially when you proclaim the use of intellectual honesty.

[Drich]

I wasn't warning you.

Drippy thinks everyone is out to get him and his stupid fucking god.  A real persecution complex.

In my case he is right but that does not apply to everyone.

nice to see you sticking with the 40s era zingers and one liners..
hold on a sec phone ringing.. 


Oliver Hardy telephoned.. he would like me to convey to you, that he wants his lampoons back..

I guess that does not leave you with much besides the cussing and moon landing conspiracies.