Atlantic - Why Did America Lose It's Religion?

[Cheerful Charlie]

If there is ever a nuclear war, there will be two sure survivors. Cockroaches and TV evangelists. Swaggart still haunts the air. Jimmy Bakker peddles survivalist food crap. Peter Popov did not go away after James Randi exposed his sorry ass. Sorry to hear of your Swaggart infestation.

[Tres Leches]

I just don't buy that America has lost its religion. Even in the liberal Republic of California, religion is everywhere. Sometimes it's in full view, sometimes it's just below the surface. But it's everywhere, except maybe in ultra-liberal areas like San Francisco. The state of Utah is basically governed by Mormons.
When you compare the US to a number of other developed countries, we're still a bunch of whacky bible-thumpers.

-Teresa

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I just don't buy that America has lost its religion. Even in the liberal Republic of California, religion is everywhere. Sometimes it's in full view, sometimes it's just below the surface. But it's everywhere, except maybe in ultra-liberal areas like San Francisco. The state of Utah is basically governed by Mormons.
When you compare the US to a number of other developed countries, we're still a bunch of whacky bible-thumpers.

-Teresa

Yes, there is plenty of religion. There is, however, a lot fewer religious.

[Kim]

I just don't buy that America has lost its religion. Even in the liberal Republic of California, religion is everywhere. Sometimes it's in full view, sometimes it's just below the surface. But it's everywhere, except maybe in ultra-liberal areas like San Francisco. The state of Utah is basically governed by Mormons.
When you compare the US to a number of other developed countries, we're still a bunch of whacky bible-thumpers.

-Teresa

I agree. I live very near a pocket of liberalism and at the very least, the acceptance of religion is everywhere. It's generally disguised by calling it "spirituality" or "paganism" or whatever their flavor of the month is but, it's certainly accepted as "religion", of some sort.

Also, no one appears to notice that what they refer to as a "cult", exactly describes their happily accepted religion.

[grympy]

I just don't buy that America has lost its religion. Even in the liberal Republic of California, religion is everywhere. Sometimes it's in full view, sometimes it's just below the surface. But it's everywhere, except maybe in ultra-liberal areas like San Francisco. The state of Utah is basically governed by Mormons.
When you compare the US to a number of other developed countries, we're still a bunch of whacky bible-thumpers.

-Teresa

Yes, there is plenty of religion. There is, however, a lot fewer religious.

Oh let it be so!

Stats show that  the numbers of people identifying with specific religions, especially  Christianity, have declined noticeably all over the developed world. One specific religion seems to have gained a significant number of followers in OZ . I refer of course to Jedi.  To understand that increase rise, one needs to also understand the Aussie temperament.  

 I have no doubt there are some people sufficiently shallow and stupid to be genuine Jedi believers, for most it's  a way of telling the government to fuck off.

There is  also a significant shortage  of Catholic priests in Oz together with drastically shrunken parish sizes. Today it's common for one priest to service several parishes.

I understand that  in England, the Church of England is slowly fading away. The older generation are falling off their perches, but not being replaced by a fresh batch of pious humbugs.

 The only places religion seems to be growing, especially  the evangelical churches, seems  to be Africa and  South America.  Those places  have poverty and ignorance due to limited education.  A breeding ground for superstition  and religiosity. China would be more noticeable I think, if the government allowed religious freedom.


Having said that , it is my opinion that in the US especially, as with the gun lobby, the religious right continues to have power and influence far in disproportion to its numbers. That MAY diminish in time.  I suspect that once the non existent problem of climate change becomes sufficiently dire, churches and mosques will fill again, reinforcing the sentiment of my favourite graffito on religion: 

"Religion: Man's attempt to communicate with the weather" ( Cambridge, ca 2000)


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Trivia: Ireland, 1950's. There was approximately one Catholic priest for every 200 people .I shit you not .The Irish seem to have reacted rather strongly agains the pedophile priests scandal ,with people leaving the church in droves . I wonder if there's a correlation with what seems to have been a surfeit of priests? Does that suggest more widespread abuse? Given the systemic nature of abuse, one might suppose that to have been the case.

[brunumb]

Yes, there is plenty of religion. There is, however, a lot fewer religious.

Maybe the numbers are getting smaller but the noise they're making is getting louder.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Today it's common for one priest to service several parishes.

I'm afraid to ask what you might mean by this, lol.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yes, there is plenty of religion. There is, however, a lot fewer religious.

Maybe the numbers are getting smaller but the noise they're making is getting louder.

Wouldn't know about that.

[grympy]

Today it's common for one priest to service several parishes.

I'm afraid to ask what you might mean by this, lol.

I took a risk, realising there might be one-----

[Thumpalumpacus]

Today it's common for one priest to service several parishes.

I'm afraid to ask what you might mean by this, lol.

I took a risk, realising there might be one-----

In one sense or another, it's an apt choice of words, I suspect.

[Mark]

Here in Australia we now have American televangelist Jimmy Swaggart on a 24/7 TV network.
I don't know why, or who funds it, or why our telecommunications authority granted the owners
a Federal broadcast license.  I've watched it, purely out of interest a few times, and I can only say
this bloke, and his psychopathic son Donnie, are malevolence personified.  Just as disturbing are
their audiences, who seem to be either drugged, drunk or mentally unstable.  

Whatever, I find the entire show extremely disconcerting, particularly as it's being broadcast in a
nominally secular country Like Australia.  It doesn't carry any local advertising here, so I'd be very
interested in finding out who funds it—which seems impossible—but I do know there was some
secret subsidising for Swaggart to avoid paying the normal network licensing fees in 2017—when
he infiltrated Australia.  I'm guessing this could be because more than 40% of our Federal pollies
are admitted practising Christians.  

Our Prime Minister is a zealous member of the Horizon Church, which is a Pentecostal Christian
church affiliated with the US Assemblies of God (AG) evangelical church.  Frighteningly, the
69,992,330 members of the AG churches hold the Bible as divinely inspired and the infallible,
authoritative rule of God, faith and conduct.  AGs practice speaking in tongues "as the Spirit gives
utterance" according to Acts 2:4, and also believe in the current use of other spiritual gifts such
as divine healing.     Fuck me.

I'm very sorry for the many inferior Murikan products and people.

[SYZ]

I'm very sorry for the many inferior Murikan products and people.

No need to apologise mate.  The American people on the whole are perfectly okay by me, particularly
since I travelled extensively there (as a tourist).  Every second bloke we met in pubs there was inviting
us back to their place for a barbecue!     We spent some time staying with friends in Texas, and in
New York (Larchmont) and had a ball along the way.

[Mark]

I'm very sorry for the many inferior Murikan products and people.

No need to apologise mate.  The American people on the whole are perfectly okay by me, particularly
since I travelled extensively there (as a tourist).  Every second bloke we met in pubs there was inviting
us back to their place for a barbecue!     We spent some time staying with friends in Texas, and in
New York (Larchmont) and had a ball along the way.

Yeah, it was for the other half I was apologizing.

[Cavebear]

If there is ever a nuclear war, there will be two sure survivors.  Cockroaches and TV evangelists.  Swaggart still haunts the air.  Jimmy Bakker peddles survivalist food crap.  Peter Popov did not go away after James Randi exposed his sorry ass.  Sorry to hear of your Swaggart infestation.

Actually, neither will do well. One depends on us for unearned sustenance, and the cockroaches will die in the winter when our buildings get cold...

[brunumb]

I thought Cockroaches and TV evangelists were synonymous.  

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If there is ever a nuclear war, there will be two sure survivors.  Cockroaches and TV evangelists.  Swaggart still haunts the air.  Jimmy Bakker peddles survivalist food crap.  Peter Popov did not go away after James Randi exposed his sorry ass.  Sorry to hear of your Swaggart infestation.

Actually, neither will do well.  One depends on us for unearned sustenance, and the cockroaches will die in the winter when our buildings get cold...

LOL. Come to Florida.

Oh, wait, those are "Palmetto bugs", not roaches. My bad.

[mordant]

I just don't buy that America has lost its religion. Even in the liberal Republic of California, religion is everywhere. Sometimes it's in full view, sometimes it's just below the surface. But it's everywhere, except maybe in ultra-liberal areas like San Francisco. The state of Utah is basically governed by Mormons.
When you compare the US to a number of other developed countries, we're still a bunch of whacky bible-thumpers.

-Teresa

I agree.  I live very near a pocket of liberalism and at the very least, the acceptance of religion is everywhere.  It's generally disguised by calling it "spirituality" or "paganism" or whatever their flavor of the month is but, it's certainly accepted as "religion", of some sort.  

Also, no one appears to notice that what they refer to as a "cult", exactly describes their happily accepted religion.    

One would expect the first step in the maturation of overall human thinking away from the magical, to be the decline of organized and societally sanctioned and mainstream religion and the associated observed traditions, where there's an organizational structure presiding over birthing, marriage, and death. That is definitely crumbling and confined to defined pockets, especially rural and Southern.

When those structures erode or collapse, people are faced with a choice. Do you find a substitute with new age or pagan or "roll your own" beliefs about the aspects of reality surrounding mortality and meaning, or do you seek to find out what reality actually IS? At present, most folks are still distancing themselves from bare-metal reality. I can't say that I blame them, really, either. When humanity achieved abstract thought and self-awareness, it was a burden we could barely handle, and that is largely true to this day. I can't claim that my atheism has made me more content or happy. What it has done is made me more REAL. I left religion to escape cognitive dissonance, not to find joy or something.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Fuck it, I'm moving to Pern.

[Cheerful Charlie]

I thought Cockroaches and TV evangelists were synonymous.  

Stop insulting cockroaches.  Maybe just as bad or worse are "spiritual advisers" such as Trumpo's spiritual adviser Paula White.  This women is as big a clown as Bakker or Swaggert.  I look forward to having a president that won't bring this type of fool into the White House to prop up their religious bonafides.

[SYZ]

I thought Cockroaches and TV evangelists were synonymous.  

Shit no! Cockroaches have far higher moral values mate.    

[Drich]

...Again we need the official data point provided by the census who sources this data from ASARB http://www.usreligioncensus.org/ for 2020 to make a determination.

LOL... don't you just love it when someone cites "statistics" about religion from a religious organisation?  And
who could dare to accuse the ASARB of bias, selective polling, or skewing the results?  Oh... not me m'lud!

The Association of Statisticians of American Religious Bodies (ASARB) "was founded in 1935 to:

   •  Bring together professionals in denominations and other religious bodies who gather and publish statistics on their groups,
   •  Furnish a forum for the exchange of ideas, problems, and methods,
   •  Seek greater standardization in religious statistical data."

And again those "unaffiliated" numbers show little to no growth since 1990. (the last 19 years) nothing outside the margin of error. we need the 2020 data point to provide a truthful answer. The rest is feeling and speculation.

Nope.  The 'unaffiliated' or 'nones' have been increasing markedly in the last 40 years.  You might like to
check out my link below to confirm this in Australia—which demographically is very similar to the US, although
somewhat less religion-orientated.  In our 2016 Census, there were more responses for “no religion” than any
actual religion, at 33.3% of the population, versus 25% Catholic and 14.7% Anglican.

How no religion became the most common "religion" in Australia

Your claim that the religiously 'unaffiliated' percentage of the population is not increasing is either fatuous,
misinterpretation, disingenuous, or a blatant lie.  Take your pick.  See the graph below, and note in particular
the "No religion" numbers (in mid-green) which have shown a regular increase since 1971.



I'm actually not sure why you periodically raise your head above the religious ramparts here, and repeatedly
misquote actual statistics in order to deny the reality.  

Are you a masochist maybe?    

PS:  I'm not sure what you mean by "little to no growth since 1990. (the last 19 years)".
Do you mean 2000 or the last 29 years?  Can't be both.

why do I lift my head above the ramparts? to point out thing like the title of the thread verse the title of your graph.
Then to ask how stupid are you to assume the two different countries who you point out one of which is less religious would have the same measure of decline. Hey doomas I did not say america had no decline in religion. I pointed out that we need a 2020 data point to determine how much decline America has suffered.

So what do you do? you make up some pompus BS referencing another country to try and fill in the VERY DATA POINT I SAID WE NEEDED!

So way to go dummy by your own work and words you support my conclusion in that we need more data to vet the OP's assertion. Otherwise why provide it via the australia graph if your argument is so strong??

So again why do I raise my head?  to set up a head shot like this. In that you shot yourself in the head when you hit the post button but where too dumb to know it. 

Again stupid my argument is not that america is in decline or recovery. it is we need more data because very little movement in religion has been recorded by the US census via the ASARB (like it or not the US government/The US census employs these people to give them their official numbers.) And again just in case you missed it the first time. the polling place the OP used is openly out sourced by the US census. meaning according to the source material in the OP only the US census trumps the numbers they provide. Which again The census gets it's numbers from the Asarb.

[Drich]

Really guys what is the big deal to say we need another data point that the info we have is almost 10 years old at a lot has changed. surly any reasonable person could agree to this.

[SYZ]

LOL... judging by the above comments—ludicrous as they are—I can see we're dealing here with a religious
sociopath who seems blinded to actual, accredited statistical data pointing to an unambiguous decline in the number
of people deserting religion and/or the increasing numbers of people defining themselves as atheist and/or other.

I really can't be bothered replying again to someone who's just possibly suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Really guys what is the big deal to say we need another data point that the info we have is almost 10 years old at a lot has changed.

Nope.  My data are dated 28 June 2017.      Your data are 10 years old LOL.

[grympy]

I'm very sorry for the many inferior Murikan products and people.

No need to apologise mate.  The American people on the whole are perfectly okay by me, particularly
since I travelled extensively there (as a tourist).  Every second bloke we met in pubs there was inviting
us back to their place for a barbecue!     We spent some time staying with friends in Texas, and in
New York (Larchmont) and had a ball along the way.

 Me too. Always had a ball in the US. Of  course were  neck deep in relatives, and were treated  like royalty . Except Hawaii; still had a ball. ------I must admit to having a superior little snicker when I first  saw Waikiki Beach . 

The only place in Oz I've been which has some dreadful beaches is Townsville. (mangrove swamps  ) Adelaide  has some fantastic local beaches. I'm a bit far from local  beaches. The closest is a 45 minute drive

I'll see if I can dig up some photos

[Drich]

LOL... judging by the above comments—ludicrous as they are—I can see we're dealing here with a religious
sociopath who seems blinded to actual, accredited statistical data pointing to an unambiguous decline in the number
of people deserting religion and/or the increasing numbers of people defining themselves as atheist and/or other.

I really can't be bothered replying again to someone who's just possibly suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Really guys what is the big deal to say we need another data point that the info we have is almost 10 years old at a lot has changed.

Nope.  My data are dated 28 June 2017.      Your data are 10 years old LOL.

Moron the statistical data you provided is FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY! THE OFFICIAL DATA FOR THIS COUNTRY COMES OUT IN A YEAR!