“Jonestown in slow motion”

[Vera]

Please let me know what you think.

You first. As in: you master thinking first, even if at a very basic level (everyone must work with what god - for lack of better word - gave them. It really isn't your fault), and *then* come back to us.

Better yet, don't. I'd rather this place stayed as drivel-free as possible and we already need a bucket and some industrial strength bleach to clean your pile.

[ujbocamm]

Thank you, Vera, for your kind words and your graciousness. Your generosity of spirit is exceeded only by your inner beauty.
Have a nice day!
~John~

[Vera]

Thank you, Vera, for your kind words and your graciousness. Your generosity of spirit is exceeded only by your inner beauty.
Have a nice day!
~John~

And speaking of graciousness - it would be appreciated it if kept your drivel to your own threads. Bullshit posting is *not* appreciated here.

[SYZ]

Good morning, Vera!
Thank you for your insightful and closely reasoned analysis of my modest offering. Please bear with me while I pull back the shroud of your mental cloister and invite in the light.

You may see this as an expression of your "sense of humour" mate, but I read it as patronising
and exhibiting much of the arrogance shown typically in most of your comments.  Your flowery
prose and pseudo-intellectualism doesn't fool me, or probably, most other people here.

My understanding of your original post is that you are upset by suffering and death.

You've missed the gist again.  Vera is upset by unnecessary suffering and death as led to by the
practices of the Christian Scientists.

While that pose may be socially acceptable in some circles it reflects a profound misunderstanding of Nature, a complete disconnect from reality, if I may say so.

Were you born so smugly self-satisfied, or is it something you've worked on?  And yes, you have every
right to say "if I may say so", but it doesn't make it right or make you into some sort of oracle.

Please allow me to introduce you to the work of ethologist John B. Calhoun.
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z760XNy4VM"
Now, let us try something entirely novel: you view the video offered above and then try to extrapolate the findings to apply to the current human condition....

You need to know that this ultimately worthless experiment was started some 60 years ago, by Calhoun,
and has long been discredited by social scientists because of its non-scientific methodology.  And for
something "entirely novel", how about you  tell us  what your  interpretation is of this experiment?

And while you're at it, check out this article:  The Doomed Mouse Utopia That Inspired the "Rats of NIMH"

BYW, John Bumpass(!) Calhoun died 25 years ago, so his works could hardly be called cutting edge!

[SYZ]

What an arsehole this bloke is...

Thank you, Vera, for your kind words and your graciousness. Your generosity of spirit is exceeded only by your inner beauty.
Have a nice day!

You truly seem to thing you're one smart dude don't you matey? Whereas you come across
repeatedly as an arrogant, condescending know-it-all wanker, with delusions of grandeur. Sad.

[Vera]

What an arsehole this bloke is...


You truly seem to thing you're one smart dude don't you matey?   Whereas you come across
repeatedly as an arrogant, condescending know-it-all wanker, with delusions of grandeur. Sad.

At least it's a different type of troll and dumbass. Granted, the novelty wears out pretty soon, but at least it's not the usual religionist-on-a-proselytising spree fare. On the other hand, at least those are often brainwashed...

[ujbocamm]

Hi, SYZ!
You say, "You truly seem to thing you're one smart dude don't you matey?"
Well, yes, I do "thing" that.
"Whereas you come across repeatedly as an arrogant, condescending know-it-all wanker, with delusions of grandeur."
That's what my psychologist told me! He was right, too, y'know?
Thank you for your keen observations.
In post #29 you say, "Vera is upset by unnecessary suffering and death as led to by the practices of the Christian Scientists."
The use of the qualifier "unnecessary" implies the existence of NECESSARY suffering and death, which is precisely the point I was trying to make.
Nature does not care. Necessary, unnecessary, heinous, benign -- are all emotional constructs used by tremulous people to justify imposing their petty tyrannies on their neighbors. And they squall like cats under a gate when their fascistic proclivities are brought to their attention.
Thank you for your frank insights. And can you back off from the ad hominem? I think you're better than that.
~John~

[Vera]

@Aliza and @Dom, I know it's a pain in the ass but can we throw the verbal diarrhea of our latest troll or whatever that poster is in the vipers' pit. This was supposed to be a thread for thinking adults, not... this pile of vomit.

[grympy]

Hi, Vera!
May I remind you that before the advent of modern medicine the human race went extinct not once, not twice, but THREE separate times?! Oh...you say we didn't? But...but...what DID happen?
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/26/germanwings-flight-4u9525-deliberately-flown-into-mountain-says-prosecutor"
Quote: "The 144 passengers and six crew on board were killed instantly."
There is an agronomic metric called "carrying capacity" that indicates how much biomass can be sustained on a particular part of the range. The BLM identifies "cow/calf units" in parcelling out grazing allotments. That means carrying capacity.
Can you relate this to human population? Do you know what numbers of people fit within the carrying capacity of this planet? If you analyse the "hockey-stick" graph of exponential growth of human numbers, it appears that the population before 1700 CE hung stable at about 500 million bodies. Since the time of Magellan human population has burgeoned by a factor of 15! (500 million times 15 equals 7.5 billion). Anything that counters that growth trend should be hailed as a boon for humanity.
"https://www.news.com.au/world/suicide-bomb-blast-kills-15/news-story/d90113ebb880b14f694e69b6eff9308f"
This guy only earns "Honorable Mention". He barely broke even. The plane guy gets a star with a 10X score. Jim Jones...now! He surely deserves an engraved medallion, right?
Seriously, if we don't admit to and address overpopulation, all else is vanity. Short, glorious vanity.
Thank you. ~John~

What-utter-nonsense. Did you come to that conclusion  all by  yourself, or did some one  teach you? Are you still at school? If so, perhaps run your ideas past a  teacher.  Don't be surprised if he/she laughs in your face.


If you want to make such an outrageous claim, you are  expected tp  provide actual proof. 

IF homo sapiens went extinct, how on earth did it recover? 'Extinct' means 'all gone' No survivors, none.    As far as I'm aware ,there is no evidence of any extinct species ever having recovered .


I DO understand for example the world population is growing exponentially . That one day we will probably breed ourselves to extinction as mammals often do. .  But not yet, and probably not for many years.  Don't worry about it  because  (1)climate change will probably kill us off before over population  and (2) You seem to think our extinction matters. It doesn't , only the continuation  life matters. In fact, this planet will be far better  off without humans. It will even eventually recover from the damage we have done  I've seen an estimate of about 1 million years before all traces of us have disappeared

No, won't give you a negative rep, as you posts are  no worse than a lot of  the stuff various  theist apologists write . Who knows, unlike them, you may be effected by facts and reason

----------and I'm talking to a brick wall, aren't I?

[grympy]

Error of mortal mind, indeed. An error leading to (premature) mortality is more like it. But it shows the lengths to which people will go to maintain their ego investment in ideas they've bought into, pretty much no matter how stupid or bizarre they might be.

And Huxley might have been a little low on his estimate.

Huxley is right;  Any  negative effect of any human behaviour is  far more likely to be the result of stupidity, incompetence  or greed than  of malice 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The big problem will be climate change, which may very well in 50 years result in hundreds of millions dying as parts of the globe become uninhabitable. It is notable that right winged Christians constitute a sizable portion of climate denialists, supporting the do-nothing GOP. Bad religion and bad government make for an evil combination.

Trump has recently stated that if re-elected in 2020, he will slash Social Security and Medicare. This will kill more people than Christian Science does.

https://www.alternet.org/2019/08/trump-s...-medicare/
...
The New York Times reported this week that, with the budget deficit set to surpass $1 trillion in 2020 thanks in large part to Trump’s tax cuts and trade war, Republicans and right-wing groups are pressuring the president to take a sledgehammer to Social Security and Medicare, widely popular programs Trump vowed not to touch during his 2016 campaign.

Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.) told the Times that his party has discussed cutting Medicare and Social Security with Trump and said the president has expressed openness to the idea.

“We’ve brought it up with President Trump, who has talked about it being a second-term project,” said Barrasso.
...

[SYZ]

Hi, SYZ!
You say, "You truly seem to thing you're one smart dude don't you matey?"
Well, yes, I do "thing" that.
"Whereas you come across repeatedly as an arrogant, condescending know-it-all wanker, with delusions of grandeur."
That's what my psychologist told me! He was right, too, y'know?
Thank you for your keen observations.
In post #29 you say, "Vera is upset by unnecessary suffering and death as led to by the practices of the Christian Scientists."
The use of the qualifier "unnecessary" implies the existence of NECESSARY suffering and death, which is precisely the point I was trying to make.
Nature does not care. Necessary, unnecessary, heinous, benign -- are all emotional constructs used by tremulous people to justify imposing their petty tyrannies on their neighbors. And they squall like cats under a gate when their fascistic proclivities are brought to their attention.
Thank you for your frank insights. And can you back off from the ad hominem? I think you're better than that.
~John~

What a fucking dickhead! This bloke is certifiable LOL.

And mate... I don't give a flying fuck what you think of me.    Sorry to disappoint you.

...wanker.

[grympy]

Hi, SYZ!
You say, "You truly seem to thing you're one smart dude don't you matey?"
Well, yes, I do "thing" that.
"Whereas you come across repeatedly as an arrogant, condescending know-it-all wanker, with delusions of grandeur."
That's what my psychologist told me! He was right, too, y'know?
Thank you for your keen observations.
In post #29 you say, "Vera is upset by unnecessary suffering and death as led to by the practices of the Christian Scientists."
The use of the qualifier "unnecessary" implies the existence of NECESSARY suffering and death, which is precisely the point I was trying to make.
Nature does not care. Necessary, unnecessary, heinous, benign -- are all emotional constructs used by tremulous people to justify imposing their petty tyrannies on their neighbors. And they squall like cats under a gate when their fascistic proclivities are brought to their attention.
Thank you for your frank insights. And can you back off from the ad hominem? I think you're better than that.
~John~

What a fucking dickhead!  This bloke is certifiable LOL.

And mate... I don't give a flying fuck what you think of me.    Sorry to disappoint you.

...wanker.

 SYZ old sock. You really do need to be a little less reticent. 

[SYZ]

Hi, SYZ!
You say, "You truly seem to thing you're one smart dude don't you matey?"
Well, yes, I do "thing" that.
"Whereas you come across repeatedly as an arrogant, condescending know-it-all wanker, with delusions of grandeur."
That's what my psychologist told me! He was right, too, y'know?

What a fucking dickhead!  This bloke is certifiable LOL.

And mate... I don't give a flying fuck what you think of me.    Sorry to disappoint you.

...wanker.

 SYZ old sock. You really do need to be a little less reticent. 

Yeah mate... I know I should really be telling this bloke what I think of him. I'll try not to hold back in future LOL.

[Antifred]

By the early 1970s, Jones began deriding Christianity as "fly away religion", rejecting the Bible as being a tool to oppress women and non-whites, and denouncing a "Sky God" who was no God at all.[16] 

And ...

In a 1976 phone conversation with John Maher, Jones alternately stated that he was an agnostic and an atheist.[44] wikipedia - jim jones

I often try to figure out why such mix up with things like Jim Jones a typical dishonest illogical atheist being categorized into christianity.  Then people believe in the big bang scientific myth but don't understand it comes from biblical text.  

[Dom]

By the early 1970s, Jones began deriding Christianity as "fly away religion", rejecting the Bible as being a tool to oppress women and non-whites, and denouncing a "Sky God" who was no God at all.[16] 

And ...

In a 1976 phone conversation with John Maher, Jones alternately stated that he was an agnostic and an atheist.[44] wikipedia - jim jones

I often try to figure out why such mix up with things like Jim Jones a typical dishonest illogical atheist being categorized into christianity.  Then people believe in the big bang scientific myth but don't understand it comes from biblical text.  

Did you shout that loud enough? I think peeps here can read smaller print, too.

[Paleophyte]

By the early 1970s, Jones began deriding Christianity as "fly away religion", rejecting the Bible as being a tool to oppress women and non-whites, and denouncing a "Sky God" who was no God at all.[16]

And ...

In a 1976 phone conversation with John Maher, Jones alternately stated that he was an agnostic and an atheist.[44] wikipedia - jim jones

I often try to figure out why such mix up with things like Jim Jones a typical dishonest illogical atheist being categorized into christianity.  Then people believe in the big bang scientific myth but don't understand it comes from biblical text.

Reformatted for sanity's sake. "BlinkMacSystemFont"? Seriously?

What happened? You run out of Scotsmen again? Reverend James Jones was ordained in 1956 by the Independent Assemblies of God and in 1964 by the Disciples of Christ. He was the leader of the Peoples Temple of the Disciples of Christ. Tell me if you don't understand any of the highlighted words.

[Paleophyte]

May I remind you that before the advent of modern medicine the human race went extinct not once, not twice, but THREE separate times?! Oh...you say we didn't? But...but...what DID happen?

How much effort does it require to maintain that pseudo-intellectual facade while claiming that your species went extict three times before your birth?

"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/26/germanwings-flight-4u9525-deliberately-flown-into-mountain-says-prosecutor"
Quote: "The 144 passengers and six crew on board were killed instantly."
There is an agronomic metric called "carrying capacity" that indicates how much biomass can be sustained on a particular part of the range. The BLM identifies "cow/calf units" in parcelling out grazing allotments. That means carrying capacity.
Can you relate this to human population? Do you know what numbers of people fit within the carrying capacity of this planet? If you analyse the "hockey-stick" graph of exponential growth of human numbers, it appears that the population before 1700 CE hung stable at about 500 million bodies. Since the time of Magellan human population has burgeoned by a factor of 15! (500 million times 15 equals 7.5 billion). Anything that counters that growth trend should be hailed as a boon for humanity.
"https://www.news.com.au/world/suicide-bomb-blast-kills-15/news-story/d90113ebb880b14f694e69b6eff9308f"
This guy only earns "Honorable Mention". He barely broke even. The plane guy gets a star with a 10X score. Jim Jones...now! He surely deserves an engraved medallion, right?
Seriously, if we don't admit to and address overpopulation, all else is vanity. Short, glorious vanity.
Thank you. ~John~

I eagerly await your treatise on the ethical basis of ignorance, senseless violence, and "anything that counters that growth trend" because nothing quite shrieks "ends justifying the means" like thinking that medieval feudalism and the black plague were the right way to go.

If you knew jack about carrying capacity you'd know that it isn't a static figure but is directly influenced by how efficiently an organism utilizes its resources. If your figure of "500 million" had any merit then the other 7 billion of us should be dead or dying. The fact hat the population is still increasing demonstrates that you don't have the first clue about the words that you're abusing.

[Antifred]

a 1976 phone conversation with John Maher, Jones alternately stated that he was an agnostic and an atheist.[44] wikipedia - jim jones


Jim Jones self proclaimed to be agnostic and atheist, typical dishonest illogical atheist killing over 900 people in the name of "religion ".

[Paleophyte]

a 1976 phone conversation with John Maher, Jones alternately stated that he was an agnostic and an atheist.[44] wikipedia - jim jones


Jim Jones self proclaimed to be agnostic and atheist, typical dishonest illogical atheist killing over 900 people in the name of "religion ".

Repeating it doesn't make it true. You have one tape of one conversation. In everything else Jones said and did he proclaimed to be religious, albeit a religion heavily influenced by his ideology.

[grympy]

By the early 1970s, Jones began deriding Christianity as "fly away religion", rejecting the Bible as being a tool to oppress women and non-whites, and denouncing a "Sky God" who was no God at all.[16] 

And ...

In a 1976 phone conversation with John Maher, Jones alternately stated that he was an agnostic and an atheist.[44] wikipedia - jim jones

I often try to figure out why such mix up with things like Jim Jones a typical dishonest illogical atheist being categorized into christianity.  Then people believe in the big bang scientific myth but don't understand it comes from biblical text.  

Did you shout that loud enough? I think peeps here can read smaller print, too.

 Of course . You need to understand  even the most absurd nonsense  becomes true if one yells loud enough.  Like the well known fact that if you speak very loudly and lowly, a person  who speaks  no english will magically understand.

I especially  liked the claim the 'the big bang" MYTH comes from scripture.  Wouldn't be surprised, because as I understand, it's probably wrong IE There was no 'big bang" . It was, and is an expansion .  This is called" the steady state theory" .The Big Bang theory gives the age of the universe as  only a few billion years, younger in fact than our solar system..

Please don't yell at me, I'm quoting from an article . Don't claim to actually understand .

The link is to what seems to be a learned article

https://history.aip.org/history/exhibits...igbang.htm

As for 'illogical atheists": Perhaps our apologist scholar would like to explain the logical fallacy contained in the sentence "I don't believe in god(s) due to a lack of proof"

[Antifred]

It show contradictory statements on his part. He states or has an ordination. A lying atheist can obtain a church certificate saying they are a minister. On the other hand, Jim Jones proclaims verbally he is agnostic and atheist. obvious contrast of statement points to dishonesty.

[Antifred]

#1 there is no lack of proof. 

#2 personal Incredulity fallacy is the fallacy of saying "I do not understand,  therefore It must be false"

[Antifred]

Atheism is an -ism. It comes in many forms. ism means: a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement.

Atheism is a practice of a life that no gods exist. Atheism is a system of debate against anything god. Atheism is a philosophy that no gods exist. Atheism is illogical. People have eaten tacos.

[Antifred]

Religion ... pure and faultless is this: to help widows and orphans in need and avoiding worldly corruption.  James 1:27

How was Jim Jones being religious?