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+--- Thread: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? (/showthread.php?tid=4641)
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Alan V - 01-18-2020
(01-18-2020, 04:38 PM)Jenny Wrote: "There is a caveat to this conclusion: if our universe is a simulation, there is no reason that the laws of physics should apply outside it. In the words of Zohar Ringel, the lead author of the paper, “Who knows what are the computing capabilities of whatever simulates us?”
Yes, but once you have suspended the laws of physics outside the simulation, why assume a computer is behind it? A computer works by physics. So this still disproves a computer simulation.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Paleophyte - 01-18-2020
![[Image: morning.png]](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/morning.png)
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Thumpalumpacus - 01-18-2020
(01-18-2020, 04:14 PM)Jenny Wrote:(01-18-2020, 03:38 PM)Dancefortwo Wrote: The only reason this idea exists is because we humans invented computers. During the Middle Ages people thought the earth was the center of the universe and everything revolved around us because.....god. The computer simulation idea isn't all that different.
Tyson (who although appears to be on board with the simulation idea) had this to say: “If you’re finding IT solutions to your problems, maybe it’s just the fad of the moment. Kind of like if you’re a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.”
So I think you're right...we find computer code because we know computer code exists and we are intrinsically pattern makers. In our minds these two things are related since we are evolutionarily designed to find and seek out patterns and often find patterns where none exist. Additionally, Lisa Randall (a Harvard University physicist I fangirl over) was also on the panel and stated the possibility of a computer simulated universe is effectively zero. From a Space.com "Is the Universe a Simulation? Scientists Debate" article by Sarah Lewin:
"But Randall noted that a universe in which errors were able to spread would quickly break down. So isn't it logical, she said, that the stable universe we find ourselves in could incorporate that type of feedback?" The article continues: "The researchers pointed out that a similar error-correction process works during the replication of DNA; organisms whose genetic material got too mangled would not survive."
A lot of people don't seem to understand that natural selection is a concept which extends far beyond the bounds of biology. Instability winnows itself out.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Aractus - 01-19-2020
(01-18-2020, 03:16 PM)Phaedrus Wrote: I believe if we were in a simulation, there would have already been discovered a way to realize that we are in one.
There's no way to know, it's a well known philosophical problem known as the brain in a vat thought experiment.
Imagine the hypothesis that you are a bodiless brain in a vat, that has been provided with all the exact same sensory inputs that you have experienced supposedly through your body. Do you know that you're not a brain in a vat?
Most people will answer yes, they know they're not a BIV. But this is not from a position of superior knowledge or evidence, rather it is to defend oneself against the threat of scepticism. If you admit you don't know that you're not a BIV it means you don't know if you have a body. You don't know if you have hands. You don't know if all your beliefs about the outside world are wrong.
The intuitive answer that a person must know that they indeed have a body can be shown to be flawed in a numbers of ways. Consider your personality - it is an essential feature of who you are that is built in response to your interactions with the world - how then does one explain people with multiple personalities (dissociative identity disorder)? In those such brains more than one person exists in the single brain, each with separate beliefs about the world, and experiences with the world. Indeed the medical community approached DID with extreme scepticism, out of a firm belief that it was incompatible with their experiences of reality. The result was that for a very long time it was viewed as an extremely rare condition affecting less than 100 people in the world.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Dānu - 01-19-2020
(01-19-2020, 12:12 AM)Aractus Wrote:(01-18-2020, 03:16 PM)Phaedrus Wrote: I believe if we were in a simulation, there would have already been discovered a way to realize that we are in one.
There's no way to know, it's a well known philosophical problem known as the brain in a vat thought experiment.
Hilary Putnam thinks otherwise. YMMV.
http://ieas.unideb.hu/admin/file_2908.pdf
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - SYZ - 01-19-2020
(01-19-2020, 12:12 AM)Aractus Wrote: There's no way to know, it's a well known philosophical problem known as the brain in a vat thought experiment.
Personally, I think philosophical problems are a waste of brain energy. As is philosophy itself.
Is Philosophy a Grand Waste of Time?
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Alan V - 01-19-2020
(01-19-2020, 08:39 AM)SYZ Wrote:(01-19-2020, 12:12 AM)Aractus Wrote: There's no way to know, it's a well known philosophical problem known as the brain in a vat thought experiment.
Personally, I think philosophical problems are a waste of brain energy. As is philosophy itself.
Is Philosophy a Grand Waste of Time?
A lot of the problems philosophers come up with are thought experiments, or very preliminary forays into certain areas. They are therefore great at defining problems which other people later solve. So that's something at least.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Dānu - 01-19-2020
It won't make you breakfast, so there's that!
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Jenny - 01-19-2020
(01-19-2020, 11:29 AM)Alan V Wrote:(01-19-2020, 08:39 AM)SYZ Wrote:(01-19-2020, 12:12 AM)Aractus Wrote: There's no way to know, it's a well known philosophical problem known as the brain in a vat thought experiment.
Personally, I think philosophical problems are a waste of brain energy. As is philosophy itself.
Is Philosophy a Grand Waste of Time?
A lot of the problems philosophers come up with are thought experiments, or very preliminary forays into certain areas. They are therefore great at defining problems which other people later solve. So that's something at least.
I agree--I think there's great benefit in enhancing our ability to think logically and analytically. Critical thinking is something that is lacking in our culture and our world. The study of Philosophy can help harness these abilities.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Gawdzilla Sama - 01-19-2020
I think I'll take the paisley pill.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Kathryn E - 12-05-2022
I think there is a lot of evidence to suggest that the physical universe does not really exist, at least, not in the way that we think it does, and that it does not carry the same weight as we imagine or perceive it to have. It seems entirely possible, in my mind, that the physical universe is not the end-all, be-all to the nature of reality.
In physics, you understand that we aren't actually touching or coming into contact with physical matter. So, what feels entirely real to us is, in effect, not really "there." If the majority of what exists between atoms and particles is actually empty space, then does that make it real? In the Big Bang, you learn that all matter which consists of the known universe can be contained in a pinpoint and then expanded like a balloon. If that is the case, then there really isn't "much" to matter or the physical universe at all. The more I researched it, the more it seemed entirely plausible that we are living in some kind of video game.
https://futurism.com/why-you-can-never-actually-touch-anything
https://www.sciencealert.com/99-9999999-of-your-body-is-empty-space
https://www.space.com/universe-total-amount-matter-measured
https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/10128
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - rocinantexyz - 12-05-2022
(12-05-2022, 05:14 PM)Kathryn E Wrote: In the Big Bang, you learn that all matter which consists of the known universe can be contained in a pinpoint and then expanded like a balloon.In the Big Bang theory I was taught, the initial conditions are a (pre-existing) dense hydrogen plasma.
As far as reality being a video game; I'd go with Descartes: while almost every part of reality could possibly be a lie, you can not be tricked into believing you exist if you don't exist. I (you) must exist.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Vera - 12-05-2022
(12-05-2022, 05:14 PM)Kathryn E Wrote: In physics, you understand that we aren't actually touching or coming into contact with physical matter. So, what feels entirely real to us is, in effect, not really "there." If the majority of what exists between atoms and particles is actually empty space, then does that make it real? In the Big Bang, you learn that all matter which consists of the known universe can be contained in a pinpoint and then expanded like a balloon. If that is the case, then there really isn't "much" to matter or the physical universe at all. The more I researched it, the more it seemed entirely plausible that we are living in some kind of video game.
How does "we ain't touching nuffin'" (and I don't think it means what you think it means) lead to "we do be living in a "video game" (at least make it sound a bit less bad pop-sci and call it a computer simulation or a hologram or something. A video game, forsooth
)?
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Bucky Ball - 12-05-2022
Interesting.
I happened upon this recently, and Brian Cox proposes that we exist in a Black Hole.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Inkubus - 12-05-2022
(12-05-2022, 05:14 PM)Kathryn E Wrote: In physics, you understand that we aren't actually touching or coming into contact with physical matter. So, what feels entirely real to us is, in effect, not really "there."...
Take one of these:
![[Image: rat-trap-brick-500x500.jpg]](https://5.imimg.com/data5/AM/JI/WG/SELLER-68208687/rat-trap-brick-500x500.jpg)
And drop it on your big toe from ~2 foot. Report back.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - no one - 12-06-2022
Yes, it's running windows vista.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Minimalist - 12-06-2022
Ever notice how no one thought of life as a video game or a computer simulation until video games and computers were invented?
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Thumpalumpacus - 12-06-2022
(12-05-2022, 05:14 PM)Kathryn E Wrote: In physics, you understand that we aren't actually touching or coming into contact with physical matter. So, what feels entirely real to us is, in effect, not really "there."
Not really. What it means is that because of electromagnetic fields, we cannot establish direct contact between atoms. Perhaps the atoms involved in the Chixculub impact never actually touched each other, but I'm pretty sure it was really there. So are the dinosaurs.
The inability to touch something does not mean that that something doesn't exist. It only means we cannot touch it.
You cannot touch gravity, either. I bet you won't be jumping out of a window any time soon, all the same. The electromagnetic repulsion of the landing surface will still break you into pieces, because it's just as real as you are.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Bcat - 12-06-2022
This was a thread I made under my old username "Jenny." This is Jenny 2.0 responding from another dimension. Check and mate.
Also Welcome to Kathryn E *waves*
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Szuchow - 12-06-2022
(12-05-2022, 10:55 PM)Inkubus Wrote:(12-05-2022, 05:14 PM)Kathryn E Wrote: In physics, you understand that we aren't actually touching or coming into contact with physical matter. So, what feels entirely real to us is, in effect, not really "there."...
Take one of these:
And drop it on your big toe from ~2 foot. Report back.
I have counterpoint to this. Yesterday my back started hurting for no reason - ordinarily I would think nothing of it but now it is clear that player controlling me must have fucked up something.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Thumpalumpacus - 12-06-2022
(12-06-2022, 03:57 AM)Szuchow Wrote:(12-05-2022, 10:55 PM)Inkubus Wrote: Take one of these:
And drop it on your big toe from ~2 foot. Report back.
I have counterpoint to this. Yesterday my back started hurting for no reason - ordinarily I would think nothing of it but now it is clear that player controlling me must have fucked up something.
Right-clicked when he should have left-clicked. Not a big issue, just respawn and problem should be solved.
If only cancer were that easy!
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Gawdzilla Sama - 12-06-2022
Trying to imagine a computer that could simulate the real universe. JWST might be able to see the operator.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Gwaithmir - 12-06-2022
(12-05-2022, 05:14 PM)Kathryn E Wrote: I think there is a lot of evidence to suggest that the physical universe does not really exist, at least, not in the way that we think it does, and that it does not carry the same weight as we imagine or perceive it to have. It seems entirely possible, in my mind, that the physical universe is not the end-all, be-all to the nature of reality.
In physics, you understand that we aren't actually touching or coming into contact with physical matter. So, what feels entirely real to us is, in effect, not really "there." If the majority of what exists between atoms and particles is actually empty space, then does that make it real? In the Big Bang, you learn that all matter which consists of the known universe can be contained in a pinpoint and then expanded like a balloon. If that is the case, then there really isn't "much" to matter or the physical universe at all. The more I researched it, the more it seemed entirely plausible that we are living in some kind of video game.
https://futurism.com/why-you-can-never-actually-touch-anything
https://www.sciencealert.com/99-9999999-of-your-body-is-empty-space
https://www.space.com/universe-total-amount-matter-measured
https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/10128
Yeah, and I'm King Isildur!
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Dānu - 12-06-2022
I've got a slightly different theory that the world is a big pachinko machine and we are the balls.
RE: Do We Live in a Computer Simulation? - Gawdzilla Sama - 12-06-2022
Is this theory a way of avoiding responsibility by blaming some cosmic programmer?